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PostPosted: Jan 18th, '19, 07:43 
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G'day all,

I've read around and tried searching, I'm not exactly stuck but I would like some advice from those more seasoned aquaponics enthusiast out there :)

So Ive decided to go with a split flow, CHIFT PIST. I currently have 3 IBCs and 6 (DIY) Verticle Grow Towers. I am immediately getting the FT, ST and 1 media grow bed done. I'll be using 25mm from the pump, and at least 50mm on the return line/SLO. I have plan layed out to get than done and start expansion over the next 2-3 months, adding grow beds, filters, fish etc. My goal is to build a quality system, while keeping cost and power use down as practically possible so please keep this in mind.

My first issue is protecting the IBCs from sun, I would prefer to paint but as I understand it paint doesn't like to adhere to this plastic, and I would like advice on what you have done for this?

The other is pumps, (yes I read the pump thread :think: ) I am still lost. I want at least a 7500LPH for room for expansion, and loss of flow on head to zip towers and pipework. Im currently looking at a 7500LPH Aquapro ($100-$150), a SunSun 10000 ($80) and Jebao DCP or DCQ 8000 ($120 - $140).

Any advice/questions on my general setup or on my issues would be VERY VERY appreciated. I hope to get lots of feedback to make this better!! :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

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PostPosted: Jan 18th, '19, 10:24 
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Hi Bazz
If you want to keep your power use down perhaps rethink the vertical towers every bit of vertical pumping height will chew into your flow rate fast. Every metre of pipe , every tee piece , every join , every bend , every tap will reduce your flow rate

I would strongly advise to set your system up with absolute minimum of head (pumping height) , electricity costs are not coming down any time soon .

If you keep your pump height at a minimum you can get away with much smaller pumps .

You say your pumping through 25mm this alone will reduce your flow rate dramatically , pump through minimum 40mm 50mm would be better

My green system has 5 grow beds with siphons , my maximum pumping height when my sump is low is around a metre , my current pump is a 3500Lph Laguna I have enough spare flow to run two more grow beds .

Pumps
Ive had a 2 jebaos both lasted about 2 yrs 3500Lph models , I have 3 small aquapros been good pumps the oldest one doesn't start up after a power outage I have to give it a shake to get it going but its done a lot of work , I use these on my small one / two growbed systems and pumping through my water heater in winter on a timer.
My Laguna is in its 6th yr I doubt you will get any better than that

The easiest way to keep sun out of the IBCs is lift the liner out the cage , line cage with plastic and or shadecloth and put liner back in , can be done neatly . I use recycled plastic from grain storage bags , some farmers use these big bags to store grain , look like enormous white sausages they are single use only , very good UV stable white one side black the other side .

I have painted my growbeds and they have lasted for years , I used a "solar guard paint" cant remember what brand I did give them a buzz over with a power sander to scratch them a bit . Paint does take a long time to harden though and is easily knocked off putting them back in the cages if you don't wait long enough.

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PostPosted: Jan 18th, '19, 13:28 
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baZz1nGa_Perth wrote:
So Ive decided to go with a split flow, CHIFT PIST.
Siphoned F&D or Timed F&D?... The pump size required will be dramatically different.

Quote:
I currently have 3 IBCs and 6 (DIY) Verticle Grow Towers. I am immediately getting the FT, ST and 1 media grow bed done. I'll be using 25mm from the pump, and at least 50mm on the return line/SLO. I have plan layed out to get than done and start expansion over the next 2-3 months, adding grow beds, filters, fish etc. My goal is to build a quality system, while keeping cost and power use down as practically possible so please keep this in mind.
It's okay to oversize your pump with a view to system expansion at a later date, but with power consumption as a primary concern you need to ensure you don't dramatically oversize the pump and that you choose an efficient model. Even of you don't build it all initially, ideally you should still plan the entire system from day one, so that you can choose the correct pump. The number of GB's you will ultimately have, and their operating method (as above), will make a big difference as to which pump you choose now.

Quote:
My first issue is protecting the IBCs from sun, I would prefer to paint but as I understand it paint doesn't like to adhere to this plastic, and I would like advice on what you have done for this?
Use a can of the spray degreaser from Supercheap etc and lightly scrub the outside of the GB and FT, rinse off thoroughly, allow to dry, then paint with an etch primer, such as Dulux Precision Maximum Strength Adhesion primer.

Quote:
The other is pumps, (yes I read the pump thread :think: ) I am still lost. I want at least a 7500LPH for room for expansion, and loss of flow on head to zip towers and pipework. Im currently looking at a 7500LPH Aquapro ($100-$150), a SunSun 10000 ($80) and Jebao DCP or DCQ 8000 ($120 - $140).
Which AquaPro 7500 pump are you looking at for $100-$150???

Don't scrimp when buying your pump, it's a false economy, with pumps you get what you pay for, I would stay away from very cheap brands, for reasons of both reliability and power consumption. The PondMax EV range (made by AquaPro) are brilliant pumps. They are a dirty water pump and have the latest in impellor technology, making them extremely efficient, the power savings are substantial.

As Terra suggested, with power consumption as a primary concern, I would reconsider whether the towers are required, ie: because of space constraints, or whether you just want them because they are a novelty.

I have a customer with a system comprising 3x IBC type GB's, running as siphoned F&D, as well a number of vertical towers. They run an EV-3900 (4,000Lph) and have flow to spare. It uses just 27w, has a max head of 3.8m, and retails for $179. It would cost around $67 pa to run 24/7.

If you did away with the towers, with that same PondMax EV-3900 pump you could easily run 5, maybe 6x IBC type GB's as siphoned F&D, depending how you set them up.

With no towers and the smaller EV-2900 (3,000Lph), which draws only 20w, you could run up to 4 IBC type GB's, depending how you set them up. It would cost just $49 pa to run and retails for $159

If you stepped up to the EV-4900, it uses just 45w, so around $112 pa to run, has max head of 5.0m, and retails for $229. You could easily run 4 or 5 siphoned F&D IBC type GB's and some vertical towers with that pump, as long as you choose the correct standpipe diameter for your siphon kits. For example, the commonly recommended 25mm standpipe is overkill for an IBC GB and takes nearly twice the water flow of a 20mm standpipe to get it working.

If you wanted to step up even further, to an EV-7200, they draw just 59w, so around $147 pa to run 24/7 and have a max head of 5.5m

In regards to Aquapro 7500 pumps, the AP7500HM drew 150w, so around $375 pa to run, and it's a discontinued line. It's replacement, the new AP7510, has a max head of 4.8m and a draw of 140w, so around $350 pa. It has a rec retail of $430.

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PostPosted: Jan 18th, '19, 15:43 
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Thanks for the prompt replies and thank you both for the advice on pumps and protecting my growbeds/tanks.

The grow beds will be F&D with a bell siphon.

Mr Damage, I would like to plan out my entire system, right now I am am restricted in space which is why I was thinking about the vertical towers. (I have 2.3m by 4.9m of growing space/sunlight) with area undercover to put my fish tank, filter etc. Unfortunately I am still in a rental, and can't make my system permanent or plan to a specific space, this will change in the near future but I am still set in getting my system up and running. I have massive ideas, I want a 5-6 of media beds and also a large DWC bed, 2 fishtanks, plus a large enough RRF, MBBR. All this is just hopes and wishes as I'll have to work around any constraints/obstacles that come up with the house/property we buy.

My main energy concern was to do with efficiency of the model, which you explained perfectly, thank you very much!!!

Quote:
You say your pumping through 25mm this alone will reduce your flow rate dramatically , pump through minimum 40mm 50mm would be better

I originally wanted to go larger, but for the cost and having permanent PVC reasons I decided to go the 25mm was thinking it would be the smarter choice?

Quote:
Which AquaPro 7500 pump are you looking at for $100-$150???

AP7500HM, it's secondhand however.

Quote:
I have a customer with a system comprising 3x IBC type GB's, running as siphoned F&D, as well a number of vertical towers.

This is almost what I'm limited to, maybe able to squeeze a 4th IBC

Quote:
If you stepped up to the EV-4900, it uses just 45w, so around $112 pa to run, has max head of 5.0m, and retails for $229. You could easily run 4 or 5 siphoned F&D IBC type GB's and some vertical towers with that pump

This sounds like a good choice, as by the sounds of it, I may still be able to run my towers but then still have room for expansion later on. I am however having more doubts in the vertical towers.

Quote:
For example, the commonly recommended 25mm standpipe is overkill for an IBC GB and takes nearly twice the water flow of a 20mm standpipe to get it working.

I was going to have a 20mm stand pipe draining out to 25mm, also with a 25mm to 20mm reducer on top of the standpipe, would this produce the same result, or should I have it going 20mm from the standpipe all the way down?


Attachments:
ap.jpg
ap.jpg [ 134.18 KiB | Viewed 573 times ]

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PostPosted: Jan 18th, '19, 18:24 
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baZz1nGa_Perth wrote:
I was going to have a 20mm stand pipe draining out to 25mm, also with a 25mm to 20mm reducer on top of the standpipe, would this produce the same result, or should I have it going 20mm from the standpipe all the way down?
20mm all the way through, ie: 20mm standpipe thru GB floor, short 20mm vertical, 20mm elbow, and about 150mm of 20mm horizontal.

If the water has to travel further to return to the FT or ST, then have the horizontal draining into a larger diameter, non-airtight, return line back to the FT or ST. preferably much larger, ie: 50mm, or even 90mm SWV.

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PostPosted: Jan 19th, '19, 10:55 
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If I'm going down to 20mm all the way would it be suitable to then reduce my bell from 65mm to 50mm?

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PostPosted: Jan 19th, '19, 12:19 
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The smaller bell should work. The important thing is to leave sufficient space between the inside of the bell and the reducer. A 25mm reducer should easily fit in a 50mm pipe, 32mm might be a bit tight.

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PostPosted: Jan 19th, '19, 16:29 
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baZz1nGa_Perth wrote:
If I'm going down to 20mm all the way would it be suitable to then reduce my bell from 65mm to 50mm?
Will work fine with 65mm bell and straight 20mm standpipe, ie: no inverted reducer, they aren't required. See pic.


Attachments:
Perth Aquaponics - Bell Auto Siphon Kit - Suit 100-350 Litre Grow Bed - IBC - Resize.jpg
Perth Aquaponics - Bell Auto Siphon Kit - Suit 100-350 Litre Grow Bed - IBC - Resize.jpg [ 30.21 KiB | Viewed 506 times ]

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PostPosted: Jan 19th, '19, 17:57 
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Terra wrote:
Hi Bazz

The easiest way to keep sun out of the IBCs is lift the liner out the cage , line cage with plastic and or shadecloth and put liner back in , can be done neatly . I use recycled plastic from grain storage bags , some farmers use these big bags to store grain , look like enormous white sausages they are single use only , very good UV stable white one side black the other side .

I have painted my growbeds and they have lasted for years , I used a "solar guard paint" cant remember what brand I did give them a buzz over with a power sander to scratch them a bit . Paint does take a long time to harden though and is easily knocked off putting them back in the cages if you don't wait long enough.


Rockingham....I suspect farming area..... another suggestion is bulker bags, they are usually about IBC size and over here used for canola storage in small

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