All times are UTC + 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 109 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Dec 17th, '08, 14:48 
Offline
Legend Member
Legend Member
User avatar

Joined: May 28th, '07, 16:24
Posts: 667
Location: Adelaide
Gender: Male
Location: South Australia, AUS
Quote:
nutrients will simply be more or less concentrated

I'm afraid I don't agree with this bit, as I tried to explain here:
viewtopic.php?p=151915#p151915

I'm happy to take up the discussion there if you'd like :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
    Advertisement
 
PostPosted: Dec 17th, '08, 14:52 
Thanks Steem... :wink:


Top
  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Dec 17th, '08, 20:13 
Offline
Legend Member
Legend Member
User avatar

Joined: Apr 4th, '08, 09:36
Posts: 549
Images: 0
Location: Perth
Gender: Female
Are you human?: I think...I hope so!
Location: Sou'West Oz
Owww so much discussion while I was away! thanks Rupert, hygicell, TCL and steem for your input, those posts gave me different points of view and ideas for manipulating the amount of water, the distribution, number of fish or plants in their given situation and the system setup possibilities.

But we can't really make any real absolutes can we? I mean there are too many facters - amount of fish (and amount that we feed them) to amount of bacteria for each form of N and the amount of plants with their own nutrient needs, then there's the amount of topping up water/rainwater, weather intervention to the type of system set up. And some of the above takes time to grow so each part grows at different points.

I guess I can only dream of being able to setup the best system no matter what the right place is at any given time. :colors:

_________________
"I shall either find a way or make one."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Dec 17th, '08, 20:27 
That is part of what I'm trying to outline Jensilaedi... and the original intention of TCLs post...

Follow/duplicate the basic design and operation principles... and it IS easy... and totally reproducable.... time and time again....

Decide on the size of fish tank you want/can get.... make sure that you have at least the same volume capacity of growbeds....

Either gravity drain back to your fish tank (involves raising the growbeds, or digging in the tank......

Or run a sump arrangement, with two pumps and a timer... or if you prefer a single pump, then opt for a "chift pist" setup....

Stock at 3kg/100L of fish...

Don't overfeed... especially initially...

Test frequently during cycling... and whenever something "seems" wrong....

Have a backup aeration device and/or pumps available....

Seek help on the forum if need be....

Other than that... watch your fish and plants grow.... once balanced the system will pretty much take care of itself....

If you really feel the need.... you can experiment with your second system.... :roll:


Top
  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Dec 17th, '08, 20:42 
Offline
Almost divorced
Almost divorced

Joined: Dec 9th, '06, 20:31
Posts: 1079
Location: Drongen, Belgium
Gender: Male
Location: Drongen, Belgium
Jensilaedi wrote:
we can't really make any real absolutes can we?

thanks Jensilaedi for trying to smooth out the creases
I am only suggesting possible solutions
my defending them is often misinterpreted as imposing my ideas which is not my intention

must be a language problem or one of differing discussion traditions
sorry for that

I have no intention of hijacking anyone's thread
just adding my (hopefully valuable) two (euro)cents

I do have an inclination of thinking outside the lines
it has often led to surprising constatations
which then of course must be subjected to a critical approach
in order to be either validated or rejected

so thanks to all who give me strong opposition
as long as they open their minds
the outcome can only be positive

frank

_________________
efficiency freak supreme
anything worth doing is worth doing without a parachute Gonzo
progress is that all Eskimos get central heating
so that they have to work off their asses to buy a refrigerator
Wim Sonnevelt


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Dec 17th, '08, 20:48 
Offline
In need of a life
In need of a life
User avatar

Joined: May 9th, '08, 09:38
Posts: 1869
Location: Onslow......Western Australia.....you might of heard of it......
Gender: Female
Are you human?: some day's
Location: Western Australia
get to the point Frank........The point on the thread :roll:

_________________
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3425&hilit=onslow


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Dec 17th, '08, 21:40 
Offline
Legend Member
Legend Member
User avatar

Joined: Apr 4th, '08, 09:36
Posts: 549
Images: 0
Location: Perth
Gender: Female
Are you human?: I think...I hope so!
Location: Sou'West Oz
the point lol.... there are actually several viewpoints on this ratio question so... there isn't an actual point but several!!!

Anyway, this isn't my thread but hijack as long as it still relates to the topic and as far as i've read, everything that everybody's stated relates.

Rupert I dont mean to be argumentative but..

RupertofOZ wrote:
Don't overfeed...Test frequently during cycling... and whenever something "seems" wrong....Seek help on the forum if need be....

....that's a lot of vagues... how do I know I'm not overfeeding, what is wrong, or if I even need help apart from discovering the "known" and "common" problems PROVIDED that either the fish or plants aren't dead already!

My dream is to come up with a system that doesn't require any electricity, is put togetherable... as in click together and add this, then you're set kind of system... so you might start with one 500L Fishtank and one 500L GB and then you buy another one of those and click them into the system you already have ...

ok... Rant over, steam let out... I'm kinda trying to get the same thing but I don't think it's gonna be easy to make it a 1, 2, 3 tada!

EB's systems are amazing and insightful and really workable, but being the freedomfighter that I am, I prefer to be able to put things together myself.. and think that AP should be as easy to setup and close to the price as it is to make a irrigation system for your lawn!!

Besides that, I'm also working out ways to somehow carry water up at least a metre without using electricity from the house, solar or even wind turbines. I've thought about using the watermill, then pulley type machination to somehow make a simple wheel bucket carrying system. This will take a lot of water, so to me, the ratio of FT:GB is important :D

_________________
"I shall either find a way or make one."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Dec 17th, '08, 22:30 
Offline
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
User avatar

Joined: Dec 6th, '07, 01:13
Posts: 10702
Images: 0
Location: central FL
Gender: Female
Are you human?: YES at least mostly
Location: USA, Florida, Yalaha
I like that you said you like to put things together for yourself so you understand, but having said that, it is difficult to give you a plug and play system since we don't know which plug together parts you are gonna pick.

I also don't think that creating a perfectly formulated instruction tends to work since there are always variables that can pop up which one needs to pay attention. The perfectly formulated instructions might work fine if nothing ever goes wrong but most of us experience something going wrong at some point in time or another. Like forgetting to plug the pump back in after maintinance or a plug getting pulled out. Or a pipe getting knocked loose or something getting clogged. Then there are nutrient deficiencies, some people never have to add anything extra because their media and water supply seem to cover all the bases while other people need to add Iron and Potassium regularly. Many of these things are why questions are so often answered with questions. Like, do I need to age my water? Do you have city water or well water? If city water, is it chlorine or chloramine? And so on.

But back to Ratio's and Sump tanks.

If trying to run a system on non electric energy, one probably wants and even bigger sump and header tank so that when the wind is going good, you can stock up on potential energy and when it goes too long without then the human can use the bucket.

Deciding how much grow bed compared to fish tank one needs is based mostly on fish load/stocking density of the fish tanks. If stocking density is light, then there is not need for large amounts of grow beds. If stocking is going to be heavy then filtration (growbeds) will need to be increased, as this happens some means of protecting the fish from the water level fluctuations becomes necessary.

Everyone keep in mind that this discussion is primarily about systems with flood and drain media beds. There are other methods out there but I believe they deserve their own threads as the methods and key points are different enough that mingling them tends to cause confusion.

_________________
Aquaponic Lynx
TCLynx Bought The Farm
Old Main System
Old 300 gallon System


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Dec 17th, '08, 22:43 
Not quite sure which bits you find "vague"...

What I'm suggesting is that you follow the basic formulas, including growbed:fish tank volumes... known working/workable system configurations... in terms of general design...

Pump sizes, pump choice, layout, energy supply ... is all up to you as you may wish it...

I'm just saying that if you work within the basic proven principles then you'll minimise any potential problems....

Joels systems work so well .... because they have been refined down to the basics... and they're as "set & forget" as possible....

Duplicate the same principles... within your own design components... and you'll hopefully acheive the same low maintenance AP system...

Anything you're unsure of... or is outside of those basics... ask the question...

The more you step outside the "basics" ... the greater the potential to compromise the "set & forget" principle you want to start with IMO...

I believe building a simple... "standard" system... within the parameters allows anyone to acheive a workable system, while gathering knowledge that sometimes only hands on experience can teach...

Experience that can be applied when it comes time to build your second system... and experiment...

If anyone wants to approach AP from an experimantal perspective... fine...

Nothing stopping anyone at all... just a decision as to what way you want to go... and what will give you the greatest pleasure....

Conquering the odds and surmounting the "unknowns"... or eating fish and veges without any real effort...

Don't get me wrong... it didn't take me long to start thinking about "other ways" of doing things... to be honest... I hadn't even finished my first system....

But I learnt things from the first simple system that have highlighted and perhaps prevented me from making some fundamental mistakes with the second... or altered, even if in small ways, my initial concepts for the next system...

In the mean time ... I've got more salad & veges than I know what to do with... and I luv feeding my fish.... :wink:


Top
  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Dec 17th, '08, 22:47 
TCL wrote:
There are other methods out there but I believe they deserve their own threads as the methods and key points are different enough that mingling them tends to cause confusion.


Totally agree TCL.... all ideas are worthwhile and worth discussion...

But as you say... perhaps better confined within their own dedicated threads... the forum is now so large that it is difficult for new arrivals to gather information susscinctly...


Top
  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Dec 18th, '08, 05:33 
Offline
A posting God
A posting God

Joined: Sep 15th, '07, 09:09
Posts: 3712
Location: WA
Gender: Male
I would point out that fish numbers are irrelevant it is fish mass plus fish activity.
Bacterial activity is based on surface area food and the ones we want DO. Assuming food and DO is there you then are left with surface area which to a bacteria is anything. Size and texture all make a difference.

Steem
1 goldfish in 10K would not be the same as in a small tank. You make the assumption that there is no other life in an AP system.

To suggest anything other than F&D, is likely to get you stoned or at least pebbled :lol:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Dec 18th, '08, 07:51 
Offline
Almost divorced
Almost divorced

Joined: Dec 9th, '06, 20:31
Posts: 1079
Location: Drongen, Belgium
Gender: Male
Location: Drongen, Belgium
at the risk of getting
Sleepe wrote:
stoned or at least pebbled :lol:

actually it all starts with fish feed
all the rest is transformation

frank

_________________
efficiency freak supreme
anything worth doing is worth doing without a parachute Gonzo
progress is that all Eskimos get central heating
so that they have to work off their asses to buy a refrigerator
Wim Sonnevelt


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Dec 18th, '08, 17:31 
Offline
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
User avatar

Joined: Oct 11th, '07, 19:43
Posts: 6687
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Not at 3 am :(
Location: Kalgoorlie
Thats right - instead of the forumula of 3kg of fish per 100l of growbed, you could have say, 300g of fish food per day, per 100l of bed (or wtf it is :D)

_________________
My New Commercial System - viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6616
My Work - http://www.goldfieldsmc.com.au


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Dec 18th, '08, 21:09 
Offline
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
User avatar

Joined: Nov 13th, '07, 06:23
Posts: 5315
Location: Bundoora, Melbourne
Gender: Male
Are you human?: somewhat
Location: Victoria, Australia
True... but I had a goldfish system, and I didn't feed them at all... and my plants thrived... so there's a certain amount of ammonia produced, with or without food.

_________________
KudaPucat
A horse is only a horse for as long as we see it as a horse.
The Pale Horse Rides Again
My System #2


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Dec 18th, '08, 21:21 
Offline
Legend Member
Legend Member
User avatar

Joined: Apr 4th, '08, 09:36
Posts: 549
Images: 0
Location: Perth
Gender: Female
Are you human?: I think...I hope so!
Location: Sou'West Oz
that's prolly coz they ate each other!! :shock:

_________________
"I shall either find a way or make one."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 109 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next

All times are UTC + 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Portal by phpBB3 Portal © phpBB Türkiye
[ Time : 0.114s | 16 Queries | GZIP : Off ]