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 Post subject: Re: Skeg in the hills
PostPosted: Nov 20th, '13, 10:07 
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by magic, and by using different units ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Skeg in the hills
PostPosted: Nov 20th, '13, 10:40 
Really... sounds like complete bullshit to me...

What does EC read?... and what does Salinity read??... salts?... and salt??... (one of the salts)... :D

And how does the cheap Chinese magic wand distinguish between them???.. does it have an in build mass spectrometer.... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Skeg in the hills
PostPosted: Nov 20th, '13, 11:07 
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Really ... or are you just trolling?

Salinity units are ppm or ppt of salts, and since I have tipped in nearly 20kg of NaCl and no MgSO4, I can be fairly sure that the overwhelming contribution to salinity is table salt! This instrument can be calibrated- something I regularly do for pH, because that is the most important parameter I am measuring with it. I don't bother calibrating for salinity, because I dont need to know it to the ppm.

EC is measured in uS or mS (micro or milli Sieverts), and conductivity is measured with electrodes, and there isn't much chance of confusing it with anything else, and in my case it isn't something I even bother to record, as it isn't important for my system. However, I can let you in on a secret, it did increase when I tipped salt in! ;)

You can read all about the PCSTester here if you like: http://ww.eutechinst.com/

Of course EC is related to Salinity and to TDS.

You can read about that here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conductivity_(electrolytic)

Sorry for the off-topicness Skeg!

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 Post subject: Re: Skeg in the hills
PostPosted: Nov 20th, '13, 14:07 
Not intending to take Skeg's thread off-topic...

Yes I do know the respective definitions of each of three indicators... and the theoretical/mathematical relationships...

And,as a single probe unit... the reported levels can obviously only be based on the mathematical conversions...

But not on each specifically...

i.e.. yes "salt" NaCl... will result in a level of salinity ppm... and give an EC/CF/TDS reading.... but Sodium Chloride is only one of the "salts" that EC/CF/TDS will report...

An EC/CF/TDS reflects all the "salts" present.... not just the Sodium Chloride... and while it will report a "mathematical" salinity... the slainity reading wont necessarily be a true reading of Sodium Chloride salinity...

Etc, etc...

Just seems strange that a single probe meter would bother to attempt to report both EC/Salinity.. when generally... for application purposes... they would generally be measured seperately.. and applied differently in practice...

As you've pointed out...having added "salt"... you saw a rise in EC... but without knowing the proportion of the EC reading attributable to other "salts"... the EC reading is basically useless.. if EC is your primary intent...

No matter... I just was surprised that it would bother to do both... and how it might do so... other than by a mathematical extrapolation.. whcih might not truly represent either correctly...


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 Post subject: Re: Skeg in the hills
PostPosted: Nov 20th, '13, 14:21 
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I reckon it is pretty damn close to reality for salinity, as I had a measured (very low) base level, added my measured NaCl additions, and clearly some from the Canna clay as previously posted, although it is entirely possible that is not all NaCl, but it does taste like it when crystallised out.

The pen does have more than one probe in it, and given I am working with a known type of salt- NaCl, it appears to be indicating something very close to reality, and it is more than accurate enough for my purposes :)

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 Post subject: Re: Skeg in the hills
PostPosted: Nov 20th, '13, 14:24 
Oh Ok...Sorry.. I thought it was a single probe tester...

Yes... as you've basically only added NaCl... and it's the level of Cl that we want to measure... for fish purposes..

It is close enough... :wink:

Out of curiousity... what did it cost?


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 Post subject: Re: Skeg in the hills
PostPosted: Nov 20th, '13, 15:44 
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RupertofOZ wrote:
...the cheap Chinese magic wand...

Out of curiousity... what did it cost?



It wasn't what I'd call cheap... $263

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 Post subject: Re: Skeg in the hills
PostPosted: Nov 20th, '13, 21:26 
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Nice one Jay....
:)
The refractometer I have reads 0/00 so reading is a bit smudged on the scale so in reality it's +-1ppt anyway, which I think is close enough for us newbie By ap'ers. :D

Rates sitting at 5ppm.
Time to start thinning the leeks. :thumbright: which incidentally are sharing my 'Best AP productive crop award 1st year' so far.


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 Post subject: Re: Skeg in the hills
PostPosted: Nov 20th, '13, 22:25 
Gunagulla wrote:
It wasn't what I'd call cheap... $263

that's not bad for a multi probe...


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 Post subject: Re: Skeg in the hills
PostPosted: Nov 21st, '13, 04:59 
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Leeks :) I'm having great success with spring onions - straight out of the punnet and planted in a clump - makes an easy harvest.
What are they sharing the success with skeg?
I bought one of those salt meters on ebay to check my salinity.
Does salt go down over time?

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 Post subject: Re: Skeg in the hills
PostPosted: Nov 21st, '13, 11:23 
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I have plotted salinity of my system water on my thread, it only goes down when i add water, but goes up when water evaporates. The salt removed with plant harvest is negligible.

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 Post subject: Re: Skeg in the hills
PostPosted: Nov 30th, '13, 21:33 
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Quick pictorial update.
Best producer, lettuce, gb3, onto 3rd planting. All else is just plodding along not seeming to be in a hurry...
Removed brassicas to rid the sys from those cursed db moths but kept some kale for seeds.
Planted more beetroot, squash, melons and some capsicums, transplanted silver beet from the dirt.


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 Post subject: Re: Skeg in the hills
PostPosted: Nov 30th, '13, 21:54 
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Fish all going well, trout growing and still eating 7mm like it's their last meal, ribbing at bottom of ft 250mm so most >300mm lg. Sp's all still seem happy enough eating 2mm pellets although some seem big enough for 3mm. The water has never been clearer in the ft's prob due to the over nite constant flow I've been doing to keep the water temps down, hasn't been over 23c in the last week or so. 100l top up during the week in the 3000l sys and some transfer with the fling tank. Water parameters fine, rates low.
I've re commissioned the filter and have chosen to return to swirl as I still want some fines in the gb's and also want some solids for some plants in pots around the ft.
I'm wrapped with the new pump, it has allowed me to swing back to 15/45 and should provide enough water for the up coming expansion...


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 Post subject: Re: Skeg in the hills
PostPosted: Nov 30th, '13, 22:12 
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Last three. :)
Throwing layout ideas for the expansion, thinking something like this.
Maybe an inline wb too, or maybe gravel with a reservoir and air gap. Maybe something else???
Enjoyed watching this berry grow, the lines of seeds looked so perfect and pure.
Think I'll eat it tomorrow. :D Wondering how many sberry plants I'd need to get a punnet a week?
Couple of permatemp hoop frames need to go up on the beds soon for sun protection.
Enjoying the low maintenance where the system is at now, maybe fishing tomorrow.
:?:
Catch ya.


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 Post subject: Re: Skeg in the hills
PostPosted: Dec 10th, '13, 22:04 
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December update.
Ft temps still in the low 20's and the 10 or so trout still eating and swimming happily although we are looking at a week of high 30's so the numbers will be lower this time next week, fishing tomorrow arvo with the boy hopefully. :thumbleft: meanwhile I'm aerating during the day and pumping all night.
Sp's are eating like crazy in the fling tank, many of which are over 100mm now and really should be migrating to the big tank but they will have to wait until I evict the other residents...The gb is struggling in this sys possibly due to the high salt levels used in the parasite treatment, I've brought it down to 3ppt now by swapping water with the larger system.
On the salt subject, I'm wondering about the salts building up in systems in that I work on evap coolers and there are lots of salt build ups in the basins due to the evaporation, which is dealt with by dumping the water and/or a constant bleed. Should water changes be done on a regular basis in ap to assist the purity of the water? :dontknow:
Some plants are growing really well and others still seem to be stagnating, the vine at the end of gb1 must be growing at least 100mm a day, I think it's rockmelon, I've put so many plants in I've lost track of what's where. Tomato's are also going well at last and am trying to prune correctly, problem is, I'm not sure if they are determinate or not as I got them in a diggers 4 pack, how can you tell whether they are determinate or not? It can get quite addictive this pruning of tomato's.
Leeks thinning and flowering, celery accelerating. Added okra, sunflower, more lettuce and dwarf beans.
Getting the ft area cleaned up for Xmas as visitors are expected and I want to show off. :D
No progress on the expansion yet, it's getting too hot and the beers are cold and wet...
Yep excuses are easy.
Later.


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