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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 28th, '13, 05:57 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Damian wrote:
Ah yes, the Aquaponics for developing nations vs Aquaponics from a developed nation.

It boils down to the fact that I want 3000 other locals on my island to get involved would mean I have to design systems with components recycled from the food shipping and handling industry. We import 90% our food.

I would love to read the yellow guy got close to one once but don't have access to one would love to read what he has to say about AP for developing small island states. Even if it doesent mention this in detail any info I can get my hands on I will take what I can from it.

My aim is to get a average weeks pay for my labour from a solar powerd system that I don't have to dig holes in the ground for.
The thought of using recycled components to archive economic freedom is a slap in the face to the man, one I want to personally delevier.

I also like to talk AP, so keep those ideas coming, witch brings me to


So you are dismissing one of the premier aquaculture texts, its information and all technology used in the aquaculture industries of developed nations without even knowing what you are dismissing.

I am not saying you should use the technologies that are used in an intensive RAS such as liquid O2 or O2 concentrators or any of the other technology that is available to you when you have the captial to invest but you should understand why these technologies are used and the problems they solve so that you can solve the same problems with the materials you have at hand.

This is more important for you than it is to me. I can go to Oxyguard for example and say I want on oxygen monitoring and control system that will support this production capacity for this amount of fish pa. It is not crucial that I understand how it works because if I want to I can just buy it off the shelf. Now by understanding how these systems work I can build an O2 monitoring and control system much cheaper than Oxyguard will supply one and while I save capital its more work, effort and I have the responsibility that it works. Where as you don't know what you are doing and think that you can get away with not knowing what you are doing.

Pricisely because you have limited capital, because you have limited technological options available to you, because you live on an island isolated from mainland resources it is more important that you understand the concepts involved.

Ryan with all his growing expertise stills gets outside advice and support for things like water testing for example. You on the other hand will have to do it all. Which means your education and capabilities need to match or exceed someone who has the advantage of living in a developed nation.

A lot of what you need to know is only going to come to you through experience but you will exceed a lot faster with a better education as a foundation. The same goes for NA with limited capital, technological resources and India's notorious unstable power network you guys need to know what you are doing so that you may find solutions to the problems that you face in your areas with the materials, resource and expertise available to you in your area.

I can assure you I spend a lot of time looking at low tech solutions for a variety of problems in the agricultural and energy sectors in developing nations so that I can apply those solutions to what I do in a developed nation. Even if they are not applicable they improve my understanding so that I can develop or adapt my own solutions here in a developed nation. I can not understand why you don't have a similar attitude.

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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 28th, '13, 06:03 
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This the book you mean?

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&field-a ... %20Timmons


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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 28th, '13, 06:18 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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RupertofOZ wrote:
The concept... and potential for aquaponics to be "commercially" viable as an alternate food production methodology..


Much of what Rupe talks about is the almost complete lack of appreciation of scale in so called commercial AP.

Many of these operations cost a fortune in terms of their productivity. This concept is so well understood in hydroponics that small operations are not even considered. For example a 1000m2 climate controlled glasshouse is about $500-550/m2 whereas a 10,000m2 glasshouse is under $200/m2.

Very hard to make money from your produce when one of your biggest capital items adds more than 2.5 times that of the larger operation to your cost of production. While there is a good chance that you will get better prices through direct marketing you need those better prices to pay your wage for all the extra effort of direct marketing.

The other thing is that AP has to be "better". The integration of AQ and HP has to produce more with less in order for it to be "better". Better is most often going to be defined as cheaper but other factors can come into play. For example because of the ultra low use of some AP designs and operations they could be considered water secure where as HP systems without reverse osmosis pumps would be described as water efficient or water resilient.

Currently the HP tomato industry is booming because of repeated failures of table tom production due to adverse weather. Under such circumstances HP production is better than dirt because the dirt production is failing. In good years though dirt production is better or at least cheaper so HP produces are out competed.

The biggest advantage AP has over dirt and HP is its low water use and relatively low electricity use (compared to HP reverse osmosis systems). Even if AP con not compete on price now in Victoria the population is predicted to grow so that a Melbourne will be the most populous city in Australia topping Sydney at over 10mil. Dirt farming uses too much water to feed that many people fruit and veg. HP may be able to produce enough food with available water but not if carbon emissions are limited. AP on the other hand can but we are not talking piddly 1000 or 2000m2 systems. We are talking systems in the tens of hectares.

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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 28th, '13, 06:20 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Damian wrote:


Nope.

This one is a good start.

http://www.amazon.com/Recirculating-Aqu ... quaculture

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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 28th, '13, 06:24 
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Ok wheni get funds i might buy it but Lets not get carried away I never mentioned the c word.

$600 a week is all I need.


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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 28th, '13, 06:32 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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I just looked Babados up on wiki and apparently the population is around 270,000. Surely there must be a library that you can talk to about either purchasing this book or getting it on some sort of interlibrary loan scheme.

It is the kind of thing that you want on the shelf but if funds are tight would get you started.

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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 28th, '13, 08:09 
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dasboot wrote:
Ryan please expand on this,i would like to learn more.

Oh Come on, take a guess at least! ;)
If you do a quick dye test with food coloring you can discover this for yourself...

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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 28th, '13, 17:43 
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Ryan wrote:
dasboot wrote:
Ryan please expand on this,i would like to learn more.

Oh Come on, take a guess at least! ;)
If you do a quick dye test with food coloring you can discover this for yourself...


Ok,the main thing i would change would be the outlet design,do away with that T arrangement and have a central outlet.
Im using eddha so i have permanent colouring. :laughing3:

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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 28th, '13, 19:51 
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Good thinking :)
So central outlet would be better (but the bucket is in the way)but also look at the cross sectional surface area of a saw tooth rimmed RFS and a single side wall outlet RFS...which is directly proportional to the water velocity going past that area....

I single outlet causes channeling and irregular flow within the vessel where the v notched weir on a standard RFS slows the velocity incredibly well giving the larger partials time to settle out. Say you use a 20" conical tank... The weir is probably 16-17" diameter vs a 2" or 3" sidewall drain...

If you dye test it you will watch the majority of the water flow channel to the outlet side... Basically disrupting the "radial" flow within the vessel.

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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 28th, '13, 20:01 
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I so did not get the above. I did finish up the PDF though. I think my brain is in over load right now, just wanted to shear this update.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcW78U4D ... ata_player

Btw, are there any DIY drum filters?


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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 28th, '13, 21:03 
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Ryan wrote:
Good thinking :)
So central outlet would be better (but the bucket is in the way)but also look at the cross sectional surface area of a saw tooth rimmed RFS and a single side wall outlet RFS...which is directly proportional to the water velocity going past that area....

I single outlet causes channeling and irregular flow within the vessel where the v notched weir on a standard RFS slows the velocity incredibly well giving the larger partials time to settle out. Say you use a 20" conical tank... The weir is probably 16-17" diameter vs a 2" or 3" sidewall drain...

If you dye test it you will watch the majority of the water flow channel to the outlet side... Basically disrupting the "radial" flow within the vessel.


Thank you,that does make sense when you see it written down,in a swirl set up is this the same principle,the water velocity being slower in the center, would the neutral buoyant particles still migrate to the centre leaving cleaner water exiting over the saw tooth.

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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 30th, '13, 21:20 
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Just done gathering some mango sprouts (From compost bin) to soak in rain water.

The activated enzymes when diluted will increase germination rates of all seeds. Even difficult old seed.


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1385816749_tmp_IMG_20130911_172441.jpg [ 91.35 KiB | Viewed 2327 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Dec 2nd, '13, 20:47 
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Been thinking of low cost ways of filtering my water. I think in addition to swirl filters I need to add some tube filters after the water exit the settling tanks.

My design is as follows.

1 blue drum
Filled with 1/2 in pipe cut to 2in shorter than barrel hight. The ends of the pipe cut to acute angle to create inlet for water.(don't have to be 1/2in just largest sive that will pass through the hole in the top)
Attach inlet pipe in such a way the dirty water enters at bottom and exit at top

So from swirl to settling to tube then to mechanical screen. And that should be enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Dec 2nd, '13, 21:09 
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It maybe better to take the water directly from the swirl filter from about half way as that is where you will find the size partial best suited to this type of filtration.


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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Dec 3rd, '13, 10:07 
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Damian wrote:
It maybe better to take the water directly from the swirl filter from about half way as that is where you will find the size partial best suited to this type of filtration.

Here is one such BIO+MECH+SWIRL combination filter design I have adapted DIY. It is working fine. Hope this helps.
Attachment:
DIY biofilter design.png
DIY biofilter design.png [ 77.64 KiB | Viewed 2267 times ]

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