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PostPosted: Oct 26th, '07, 16:31 
Looks almost like the start of a "powdery mildew".... often caused by high humidity...

Cos you're running water through constantly and your near a sunny window (hence warm) you might be quite humid....

Maybe open the window periodically.


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PostPosted: Oct 26th, '07, 16:41 
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hmm, ive kept the window open all day every day.
i cut the bad leaves off.. i found a tiny little caterpiller hiding under one of the leaves, he became fish food.
i hunted around and come across milk spray, 1 part milk 9 parts water and sprayed it on and wiped it off...

cheers


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PostPosted: Oct 26th, '07, 16:53 
Tat'll do the job just fine if it's a mildew problem :D


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PostPosted: Oct 26th, '07, 20:08 
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I can't read the higher end of the nitrate test either. Re-test, using a sample that is 50% tank water, and 50% distilled water. You could use tap water if you are sure there is no nitrate in your tap water. Anyway, the diuted sample would then give you test results that are half of the actual answer, and hopefully in a range that you can discern the color. If it is still too red, dilute at a different rate and do the math.

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PostPosted: Oct 27th, '07, 14:38 
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one of my goldies is crook, swimming like a drunk and floating to the top everytime he stops moving, almost like he has a balloon pulling him to the top
i have had this little system going for about 10 days now,
when i first tested my water, it was in really bad nick, so my water quality is excellent compared to what it used to be.
whats the go with this?
i hope its just a natural fish life coming to an end.


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PostPosted: Oct 27th, '07, 14:43 
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sounds like swim bladder disorder. stop feeding them for atleast a week.


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PostPosted: Oct 27th, '07, 15:39 
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i just noticed its happening to another fish.. its not contagious is it?


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PostPosted: Oct 27th, '07, 18:45 
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When ammonia and nitrite concentrate to dangerous levels they begin to cause health problems for fish. Some like ammonia burning eyes and gills are fast.... but a lot of the time damage is done and only becomes apparent weeks later when the fish catch some disease.
So I'm thinking you need to focus on your water. Partial water change until you get that ammonia and nitrite as close to 0ppm as possible.
If you currently have good levels.... I would look at a few things. The first is what are you feeding these fish? Goldfish are like cows they need veggies. A common way to give them their veggies is feeding them shelled frozen peas or a veggie based flake.
I believe I have a better way tho....
STrange this is probably going to be the first time I post this idea in a place where people will actually see the simplistic beauty of it. Not half an arrogant start eh?
:lol:
OK so this recipe is one I am still developing.
The secret weapon in this case is the humble duckweed.

So we need...

1) a big helping of duckweed (at least 50% of the bulk)
2) some random bulking veggie, zuccini and squash are both great, pumpkin and peas are another good option to make up the rest.
3) I'll leave out the other randoms like garlic, clay etc for this one... hmm ignore 3
4) a blender
5) paper towels
6) a dehydrator or the sun or an oven

So first of all blend up the duckweed into mush, then add some of the bulking up veggies and turn them to mush too. Mix mush together well. Now tip the mush onto a pile of paper towels. Form into small patty cakes. Now SLOWLY dry them out, think of them like beef jerky (mmmmm.... beef jerky... drool) so yea ya can do in the sun, or in a dehydrator or if need be in an oven on low with the door open a crack. Once dry, and please don't burn, VOLA!! You have now not just made an excellent algae wafer substitute but the best fish laxative known to Donnykind. With it's super sinking powers it can get to the base of the tank (something duckweed has trouble doing) and be eaten by sunk fishys.

I developed this 'wafer' for my fancy goldfish and shhhh! secret hey! I realise not everyone has a nice supply of duckweed on hand. They should though and heaps of you guys do I have noticed from your pictures. But if not.... Get a pond and fill it with your old nitrate filled water change water. I run a garden hose from the tank to the pond. Chuck in some duckweed and it will reproduce like a champion! Duckweed on demand from then on. Don't have goldfish in the pond they will eat it all. Duckweed is the prince of clearing gut trouble in herbavour fish, makes peas look like a ghetto street urchin. Perhaps you can find a supply somewhere, even a creek or something, maybe someone has a heap on hand.

A few last points.

1) Gather duckweed from clean water. In filthy water the duckweed roots will collect lots of debris and the end wafer will be muddy. A clean batch will produce the most beautiful green wafer you have ever seen.

2) This is an excellent health food and helps prevent gut problems ever hapening. It helps keep goldfish, plecs, africans, silver dollar and even marines like lawn mower blenny in good shape.

3) I have made super sized 'pond pizza' complete with decorated dehydrated veggie slices. I used these as gifts for mates with ponds, to see a horde of goldys attacking a big one makes me grin.

4) If you are a ninja pirate viking like myself you can make a nice thin sheet, origami fold it into a lotus flower and create the supreme stylish treat for a beautiful chickys goldfish tank. Whos says fish geeks never get the girl?

5) I hate buying algae wafers. Make these about the same size and store well and these will last a long time. They have saved me a lot of cash and to anyone not in the know they ARE an algae wafer.

6) Duckweed is a complete food for goldfish. Pays to still feed a variety of foods, but I have raised a goldy from 2cm to 8cm on NOTHING else. Was a good growth rate, good colour and a happy healthy fish. Only gave up as needed the tank for other fish and science had to take a back seat.

7) Aside from clearing out fish like nothing else, duckweed is almost completely digestable.

8) It shrinks a HUGE amount as it drys, you will get respect for why algae discs cost so much. It takes a serious amount of algae to make each disk!

9) If you are in a hurry to use, and you may well be, the wet mix can be mixed with gelatin (or even better agar agar) and turned into a frozen 'gel' food.

10) This recipe is my baby. Use it for good. I have settled on a rather complicated version that I think is the ducks nuts. Another time perhaps.

Pictures to come, but really it's not that hard. Blend, mix in some other stuff to bulk up and dry out slowly. Yea I know genius, I'm patting myself on the back as you read :)

Another awesome 'complete' food for goldfish is earthworms.
I'm coming into this forum without reading enough of it to know if this is common knowlledge or not, so ya forgive if all obvious lol.

But ya between earthworms, duckweed and a good pellet food it's very rare to get conspitation or any disease really.
I know that ammonia is more dangerous at high pH but keeping a low pH in a high ammonia situation is not a good idea in my mind. You see bacteria that eat ammonia and nitrite work slower at lower pH's..... also nitrite is more toxic at lower pH's and less at high ones.
Nitrate is basically a 100 times less toxic than ammonia or nitrite. High nitrates lead to increased birth defects in breeding fish, slow growth, increased growth of plants and algae.

Talk about going off on a tangent..... ummm...
anyway try partial water changes but the damage may already be done.... just took it's time to rear it's ugly head.


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PostPosted: Oct 27th, '07, 18:48 
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But ya if was my tank, I would put a bit of shellgrit or coral or marble or limestone in the tank. That should stabilise the pH around 7.6 or so.
I don't think your plants would enjoy a salt dose and if you want to ever be able to eat from this system most copper based meds will be ruled out....

Has the tank been warmer than usual last few days?
Is there uneaten food in the tank?
It coud be a fast moving flex.

So increase water changes (man I luv that bit of advice), get the surface of the aquarium nice and rippled/disturbed (to increase aeration and bacteria breeding) and only feed veggie foods for a bit. Ya only feed lightly.


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PostPosted: Oct 27th, '07, 19:15 
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Welcome Don - you should fit in fine here. The fish keeping knowledge of the longer serving members and those with a ornamental fish keeping background is pretty good, so many of those points are known by many - but it is great to have more people around to help out with diagnosis when somebody experiences a problem.

I like your recipe - but my only goldies are those that were the ones I bought as feeder fish to cycle my original system, I'll not use it myself. These goldies are in with about 30 Jade and Silver Perch. Some of the perch are up to 600 grams (I estimate) and the goldies are a nice size now also (I cupped on in my hand yesterday - easy to catch as they are always at the top going for the 6mm pellets). There are some here who keep ornamentals in their AP systems who may give it a go. Many of us however feed far too much to our fish each day to make this practical. I feed 100 grams at least to my perch each day - which is why I go for the convenience of bought aquaculture pellets - though I must get my duckweed production going again. One positive with the duckweed of course is the simplicity of being able to feed it to the fish as is (but as you say - not so helpfull if the fish are bottom feeders).

Anyway - again, welcome and have a look around to see what people are doing here.


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PostPosted: Oct 27th, '07, 19:37 
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The recipe sounds yummy! My tilapia would love it. For a little while I was able to produce some duckweed, and gave it to them fresh as a treat. With my indoor setup, and the fact that we're heading in to winter, I won't be able to provide large amounts of duckweed.

We have a fish food thread somewhere. Maybe these posts could be moved from chookshit's thread to there. Moderators???

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PostPosted: Oct 27th, '07, 20:45 
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but a lot of the time damage is done and only becomes apparent weeks later when the fish catch some disease.


Tell me about it................have a had recent experience beyond my control...........;)

Will have to try your recepie as soon as i get an outdoor duckweed setup happening ;)

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PostPosted: Oct 27th, '07, 21:00 
Nioce post Don, thanks for sharing the duckweed ala supreme recipe with us.


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PostPosted: Oct 27th, '07, 22:30 
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The thing is that once the wafer is dried that it does sink... or not depending on ingredients.
It's not a staple food well at east not usually.
I really don't have much aquaponics experience but I have had a lot of ponds... and raised a lot of fish and plant combos.
Aquarium fish I have raised in childrens wading pools that sold well include white clouds, pacific blue eyes, paradise fish, rosey barb, danio, betta, platy, guppy, mollie, swordtail, bristlenose catfish, rostratus, fulleborne, electric yellows, goldfish, koi and even shrimp hey....
Not really a brag as easy enuf when through the summer here to do. Anyway those are the species that were easier to sell and worth doing. Also had apple snails and a few plants growing as well. Of the fish the platy/molly/bristlenose/fulleborne/yellows/goldfish/koi/shrimp were getting algae disks and duckweed but the fry couldn't eat. So I started blending it up and mixing with greenwater for feeding fry. The next time I made beef jerky it all came together.
You need a lot to make enough to make it worthwhile. But if you look you'll usually find duckweed is not in any short supply... at east not around here.

I spend a lot of money on algae wafers, so working out how to make them occupied a fair bit of me brain for a while there. Thing about the spirulina wafers is they are high protein, and highly digestable and clear out the system and hold a wee bit of everything a critter needs.
The thing about duckweed is that it is almost as good... and when blended it actually looks like algae. I have tried a fair few ingredients now... sometimes adding bentonite clay.... or spirulina powder or paprika...
but ya even 100% blended duckweed blended and dried out is a good food. So at it's essence it's a very easy idea.... which is the type I like.
The other ingredients are more to bulk it up so it depends what you have on hand.

I actually don't think goldfish make very good cycling fish at all. They have problems with ammonia and nitrite and are hardly treated with any sort of respect in the trade. I'd rather just add unscented ammonia and fishless cycle. but ya goldfish just have so many problems hey.

Oh and ya that wasn't meant to be a post hi-jack btw.
Just trying to share the duckweed wafer jammed log moving recipe... but ya too good not to elaborate :)
Umm... I cut out the recipe and posted it on the feeding sub board... so prob better spot to discuss recipe than this post. doh... this place is bigger than it looks.

http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/vie ... 5926#85926


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PostPosted: Oct 28th, '07, 05:58 
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Don - my goldies seemed to accomplish the cycling well - but I took it easy having only 10 or so small goldies in about 400 litres of water. The goldies were ones with no colour that were sold as feeders (they are commets I think). They are now beautiful looking fish (the 5 or 6 that are left - a couple met with filter accidents early on :shock:) and big.

Regarding fishless cycling - I tend to agree and have since done some fishless cycling, Ammonia without adatives is not easy to source here - but urine is. I am a big proponent of using urine to fishless cycle - though I do replace the water after cycling occurs and before the fish are added to remove any build-up of any dodgy salts and stuff.


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