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 Post subject: Re: PeePonics
PostPosted: Nov 9th, '15, 02:12 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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BuiDoi wrote:

So, is that all there is to it..... pee and Epsom... and then... how do you apply



PPS.. as another curiosity.. wondering what the Epsom.salts combines with the free AMMONIA... :dontknow:

so if we keep Epsom.salts in an AP system, does this mean that the dangerous Ammonia, can quickly combine with the Epsom.Salts, and form a.safer nutrient.... Struvite (magnesium ammonium phosphate) alias MAP..
So expanding things.. We add SALT (NaCl) so that the chloride ions will help block the Nitrite ions for the fish, and we add Epsom Salts to combine with free Ammonia and reduce that fish danger.. have we not got a good environment for fish health.. :cheers:

So is my chemistry completely wacky.. :support:
..


I think there is a little more to it BuiDoi. I believe getting the concentrations about right and the mixing of the concentrated stuff then filtering and drying it out.
I don't think you could really just add epsom salts to an AP system and expect it to immediately convert the ammonia to MAP.

And yes almost any fertilizer can burn plants if applied too heavily.

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 Post subject: Re: PeePonics
PostPosted: Nov 9th, '15, 06:40 
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TCLynx wrote:
You are right novaris, there is risk when using warm blooded animal manures without proper composting/aging. And there have been issues with aquaculture where the water the fish are being raised in is heavily tainted with pathogens, the fish can carry a load of those pathogens. .......

My method for ensuring some measure of safety is to bottle urine for a length of time to allow the ammonia to kill off most pathogens. And don't save urine from some one with typhus or strep. .....


Just picking up on this point from long past.. ie .. pathogens in urine.

I was told that fresh urine was seriously sterile, normally, and were it not, then the donor would already know.. ie. Bladder infections etc..
I was told that in combat, wounds would be washed clear of. Dirt and mud, by FRESH urine, arguing that there was less issue with the urine than with the mud.. (assuming little drinking water)

I would think that pathogens.might appear in aging humonia, prior to being killed by ammonia..

And thus -------- PEEing in your fish tank was/Should be, very safe...
..
Peter


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 Post subject: Re: PeePonics
PostPosted: Nov 9th, '15, 09:32 
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Yes, urine would normally be sterile unless you have an infection.


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 Post subject: Re: PeePonics
PostPosted: Nov 9th, '15, 13:55 
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>> And thus -------- PEEing in your fish tank was/Should be, very safe...

>> Yes, urine would normally be sterile unless you have an infection.

allowing for medications (and sports drinks/supplements/berocca etc**) also.....

** these are all notorious for supplying excess levels and being excreted via urine.

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 Post subject: Re: PeePonics
PostPosted: Nov 10th, '15, 02:48 
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WELL YES and NO to the urine being sterile.
the Urine itself is generally pretty close to sterile BUT it tends to pick up things on the way out. (Granted, it is normally picking up bacteria from the skin of the donor.)
So, it isn't operating room or Lab type sterile.
But it is as clean as the body it is coming out of. (Keep in mind that we all have coliform bacteria on our skins.)

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 Post subject: Re: PeePonics
PostPosted: Nov 10th, '15, 07:13 
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TCLynx wrote:
WELL YES and NO to the urine being sterile.
the Urine itself is generally pretty close to sterile BUT it tends to pick up things on the way out.


Indeed.. but I avoided anatomical comments, suggesting that male pee would be the distinctly better choice..
:whistle:

And... that MAP reactor... how is that intended.to be used.. I have not yet noticed comment from the past pages..
One assumes :naughty: that it is just a case of adding the two, and stiring.. but typically how long..
..
.


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 Post subject: Re: PeePonics
PostPosted: Nov 12th, '15, 04:32 
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BuiDoi wrote:
TCLynx wrote:
WELL YES and NO to the urine being sterile.
the Urine itself is generally pretty close to sterile BUT it tends to pick up things on the way out.


Indeed.. but I avoided anatomical comments, suggesting that male pee would be the distinctly better choice..
:whistle:

There is just one main drawback to using fresh urine to dose a pee ponics system, getting the dosing right. This is because the urea content of the urine has not changed into ammonia so if you pee in the system and then wait for it to mix then test your ammonia, you probably won't be able to read any ammonia (at least not from the fresh urine) for quite some time. This fact has burned many people who have tried to cycle pee ponically because they will pee then test the next day and not getting any ammonia reading, will add more then test again the next day and still not getting a reading they will have a pee party and really add lots. And this can go on for weeks before the ammonia level starts climbing off the charts and by then it is WAY too much ammonia and things have started to stink and the ammonia is soooooo high it can actually inhibit the second stage of cycling.

Hence why I generally recommend the well aged hummonia which will give you the double benefit of killing off any e.coli and it gives the urea a chance to convert to ammonia so that testing will be more helpful without the extreme delayed reaction after dosing.

Quote:
And... that MAP reactor... how is that intended.to be used.. I have not yet noticed comment from the past pages..
One assumes :naughty: that it is just a case of adding the two, and stiring.. but typically how long..
..
.

You would have to get Vlad to elaborate on the MAP reactor or find some one who has the links to where it is in the forum.

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 Post subject: Re: PeePonics
PostPosted: Nov 12th, '15, 06:06 
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..
Thanks.. and I might actually try a search. :-(
..


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 Post subject: Re: PeePonics
PostPosted: May 26th, '16, 20:46 
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I had a DWC trough that I wasn't using, so I decided to give the peeponics a go. Must say I'm happy with the results so far.
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It's been running about a month now, growth was a bit slow due it being summer and 40 everyday, but some plants have done better than soil on the AP GBs. The basil and tomatoes are the most impressive, healthy with plenty of roots.
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Cos lettuce is doing OK, despite small root system. Rocket is the opposite, plenty of roots, but poor growth, check the pic, it could be a deficiency?
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I've also got Kangkong growing, but I think the light levels are a bit low. The weather has cooled a bit, it's mostly overcast, the garden seems to appreciate this after a very hot summer (even by Thai standards).

The system has a layer of plastic screen for the bacteria. The only electricity is a 45w aerator. Besides urine, I added a worm casting tea and weed tea, along with a little molasses.
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I've been testing, but the kids lost the color chart so there's a bit of guesswork involved. I'd also like to buy P and K testing kit, but these are hard to find here.

Bioponics/Peeponics has both similarities to hydro and AP. I'd like to do experiment with ebb and flow, wick and other systems.

Overall it's much simpler than AP and doesn't have the problems with solids, deaths etc. If anyone has further suggestions pls share.


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 Post subject: Re: PeePonics
PostPosted: May 27th, '16, 05:53 
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Integrate a few in line wicking beds then you will be on a winner

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 Post subject: Re: PeePonics
PostPosted: May 27th, '16, 14:45 
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Food&Fish wrote:
Integrate a few in line wicking beds then you will be on a winner


I have a heap of used perlite from a hydo farm, I was thinking of using that in a wicking bed with a lime tree. Any guesses the cause of the yellow spotting on the rocket?


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 Post subject: Re: PeePonics
PostPosted: Jun 5th, '16, 01:29 
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Not sure about the spotting but deficiencies in pee ponics seemed to be very similar to those in aquaponics when I was running both years ago So you need to add buffers that provide potassium and calcium as you would in regular aquaponics (depending on the source water and pH of course.) If you can have some chelated iron on hand as well as seaweed extract or soluble seaweed powder those often take care of trace deficiencies as well as getting extra potassium from the seaweed.

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 Post subject: Re: PeePonics
PostPosted: Nov 24th, '16, 15:40 
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I've had success before starting with AP water and adding humonia to bring up the nitrates.

A month or so ago I tried to start a pee ponics system, starting with rainwater and adding MAP (sturvite) humonia and the effluent from making MAP.

For some reason I can't bring the levels up no matter how much I add. My tank is 200lt, two days ago I added 6 grams of MAP, the next day I added 18grams (I am getting 24gms per 8 liters of humonia).

Yesterday I added 6 liters of effluent. Then this morning I added 4 liters of humonia, followed by another 4 liters at midday.

Despite all of this my nitrate and ammonia readings are almost 0. I am not checking nitrite. The API Phos kit shows the readings have gone up quite a lot, but not heaps.

Some more info:
- I am running eb and flow, 15 mins on, 30 mins off.
- I am using coco and rice husks, which has colored the water a lot.
- The nitrate and ammonia tests seem accurate when used on my AP system.

The only thing I can think of is something from the rice husks is affecting the reading. I've used coco a lot, it colors the water, but readings still seem fun.

Does anyone have any ideas?

If I can't solve the riddle, I'll just drain the tanks and fill it with AP water which has readable nitrates.


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