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PostPosted: Dec 18th, '07, 08:12 
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I assume that means pure Urine. Once it was added it would dilute substantially and basically aid in maintaining a higher ph but not drive it up, unless you are adding lots of urine rather than water.


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 Post subject: Re: PeePonics
PostPosted: Dec 19th, '07, 22:05 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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If I find that letting the pure urine age till it reaches a pH of nine, kills all the bacteria in it, then It would be added to the water, which would dilute it.

It will be interesting to see how the pH balances out. I know using stuff like vinegar in hydroponics as pH down, the effect doesn't last long since the vinegar breaks down quickly. I expect the same would be true for the aged urine.

Ok, will be away for a few days. Will hopefully be able to report again Monday.

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PostPosted: Dec 20th, '07, 07:40 
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TC

Thought the smell was as a result of bacterial action?
Does the urine move rapidly up the ph scale?
Must admit testing aeging urine should get you a medal :wink: .


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PostPosted: Dec 20th, '07, 19:24 
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dont know about bacteria but i do know that an air tight bucket of cloth nappies (daipers ) gives an almost eye watering ammonia smell when your trying to put them into the wash

and thats just after one day


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PostPosted: Dec 26th, '07, 08:32 
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Well, on a bit of a tangent, since this whole forum is about growing veges with critter waste in water and people are sqeamish about humanure, how about growing non-edibles on the waste from a septic tank? Rather than running it into leach lines where anaerobic microbial action wastes nitrogen as gas why not have lined growbeds with timber bamboo or some similar non-food crop? Any water that makes it to the end could be pumped back into the septic tank or, if clean enough, used to flush again. It would not be producing food, but the water and nutrients that would otherwise be wasted would be usefully employed and could displace some forest products..

One real problem would be to deal with clogging roots.


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PostPosted: Dec 26th, '07, 11:10 
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sounds like a great idea to me


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PostPosted: Dec 26th, '07, 12:59 
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I used to have a septic overflow bed (gravel/sand bed 3x9metres) to dispose of liquids from the domestic toilets. Had several Figs and Mango trees growing on the perimeter sucking on the juices...had the best, sweetest fruit. Everyone loved our fruit salads, as long as I didn't tell them where the trees were growing!

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 Post subject: Re: PeePonics
PostPosted: Dec 29th, '07, 01:49 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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*This section previously reported but re-posted here for ease of compairison*
Anyway. Small set up running to track the rate of cycling.
12/12/2007
Collected 1 cup fresh urine and diluted in one gallon of rain water. Running in a tiny gurgle garden set up (air pump aerating and lifting small dribbles up to a bed of perlite.)

12/13/2007
Tested pH amonia and Nitrite
pH 6.6
Ammonia above 8ppm
Nitrite 0

12/14/2007
Tested pH, ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate
pH 8
Ammonia above 8ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 5ppm
I noticed that the clear air hose lifting liquid into the media has turned a bluish tint.

12/16/2007
Tested again
pH 8.2
Ammonia 6ppm
Nitrite ?reading was a little unsure but still close to 0?
Nitrate 10ppm
*end of re-posted section*

12/27/2007
pH 7.5
Ammonia 4ppm
Nitrite ?still reading funny so I can't tell?
Nitrate 5ppm
(I don't have light blocked out of the tank very well and it is turning a bit green so I suspect that alge is using the Nirtate which might explain why that is dropping.)

This current experiment isn't all that good but it was something I could get up and running with what I had to hand at the time. I've been rather busy since then (holidays, travel, Hard drive failure.) I can say I hope to do better in the near future but I also really hope that a busy work season is going to have be too busy for much extra tinkering.

As to the medal for testing urine. Come on, it isn't that bad other than the smell. The smell is from the escaping ammonia gases. People use ammonia to clean and disinfect. Now, when using urine that has been stored or aged for some time, the smell gets really strong and is pretty bad (experience from using it as fertilizer in the soil gardens.) I'm a little less eager to store urine for later testing but I will probably still do it out of scientific curiosity. Testing the stuff cycling diluted in a system isn't bad at all.

Oh well, spent too much $$ these past weeks so will have to recoup before investing in any aquaponic equipment. The larger scale outdoor tests will have to wait while I scrounge materials.

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TCLynx Bought The Farm
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Old 300 gallon System


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 Post subject: Re: PeePonics
PostPosted: Jan 3rd, '08, 01:38 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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*This section previously reported but re-posted here for ease of compairison*
Anyway. Small set up running to track the rate of cycling.
12/12/2007
Collected 1 cup fresh urine and diluted in one gallon of rain water. Running in a tiny gurgle garden set up (air pump aerating and lifting small dribbles up to a bed of perlite.)

12/13/2007
Tested pH amonia and Nitrite
pH 6.6
Ammonia above 8ppm
Nitrite 0

12/14/2007
Tested pH, ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate
pH 8
Ammonia above 8ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 5ppm
I noticed that the clear air hose lifting liquid into the media has turned a bluish tint.

12/16/2007
Tested again
pH 8.2
Ammonia 6ppm
Nitrite ?reading was a little unsure but still close to 0?
Nitrate 10ppm

12/27/2007
pH 7.5
Ammonia 4ppm
Nitrite ?still reading funny so I can't tell?
Nitrate 5ppm
(I don't have light blocked out of the tank very well and it is turning a bit green so I suspect that alge is using the Nirtate which might explain why that is dropping.)
*end of re-posted section*

1/2/2008
pH 6.2
Ammonia- 4ppm
Nitrite- ?still not reading in the range of the card? 0
Nitrate - 5ppm

I have not added anything into this tiny experiment since starting it. It probably isn't a very useful experiment but I'm still working with what I had handy.

I need to get a proper flood n drain grow bed set up with a siphon to really get some useful results I think.

I've ordered some bacteria test kits so I will hopefully be able to set up some experiments to answer some questions of how dangerous/sterile urine might be.

1-does it have bacteria when initially collected?
if so or if contaminated for the purpose of experiment,
2-does it become sterile in storage?
3-does the pH have anything to do with it?

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 Post subject: Re: PeePonics
PostPosted: Jan 3rd, '08, 07:31 
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Go for it..
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 Post subject: Bacteria Testing
PostPosted: Jan 8th, '08, 07:45 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Ok, got some test kits. Will be setting up a few tests (they take 48 hours to incubate so stand by.)

One test will be on a sample collected a while back that has reached a pH of over 9 and hence according to some, is now sterile.

I will also test a fresh sample to see how it reads.

Then for the sake of science, I will contaminate some fresh urine with a small amount of fecal matter. Part of this will be tested right away and the other part of it will be allowed to sit till it reaches a pH of 9 and will then be tested.

Three of these tests will have results in a couple of days, the last test may take a couple of weeks.

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Old Main System
Old 300 gallon System


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PostPosted: Jan 8th, '08, 07:55 
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TC

Have you any idea why your little test system did not cycle fully? Do you think that the urine 'upset' the nitrite test?
Its like the system just shut itself down after 16th Dec.


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PostPosted: Jan 8th, '08, 10:55 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Joined: Dec 6th, '07, 01:13
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I expect there are several reasons that the Little test system didn't do too much.
First. It is probably way too little. It started out with only one gallon of water and one cup urine.
Second. The way it is running, Not enough of the media is getting wetted by the gurgle set up I have running so there is likely only a very small amount of surface area getting nutrients to feed the bacteria.
Finally. Too much light is probably getting to the tank which has turned green with alge and hence why the nitrate levels when back down after going up.
I don't know why the nitrite readings were never readable.
I am kinda suprised that the ammonia reading did not continue to fall but then again if some of that alge has been dying then the cycle may be continuing under my eyes and I can't even tell.

I would have liked to get a better test with a tiny system but I didn't have the appropriate sized stuff to get a flood n drain cycle going for that. I will be doing a more useful test shortly. It will likely be outdoors in something closer to a barrel ponic size system. I now have a loop siphon functioning with my current pump so I just need to get the frame set up to support the barrel full of media and of course get the media and wash it and we will be up and testing.

Fear not, I still intend to find the answers to how reasonable a pee ponic system might be.

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Old 300 gallon System


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PostPosted: Jan 8th, '08, 12:22 
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Just realised you had a site of your own (bit slow sometimes)

Really neat :thumbright:


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PostPosted: Jan 8th, '08, 12:41 
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Heh, Sleepe, you're not the only one who didn't notice :).

TC, it looks like we have a lot of common interests, although you're much farther along in the other areas. Personally, I plan to incorporate bokashi, composting, vermicomposting, and aquaponics all together in a loop feedback system. I wish you were closer to Atlanta than a 9 hour drive so I could steal your secrets... I mean, check out your systems


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