Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I found a 120 gallon tank and stand in great condition on Craigslist for a very cheap deal, so I picked it up and now it's in my yard. There's a large steel pipe framework in a hoop shape over the tank, growing a grapevine that supplies really bad grapes, they're inedible and no good for wine, they just attract raccoons who are a real nuisance. We're pulling down the grapevine this weekend to plant a proper vine that eventually should give us good grapes for wine, and we're hoping to build a greenhouse over the structure that will enclose the fish tank.

I picked up 10 x 55 rain barrels on a whim and they're in the garage. I have a 600gph pump. The final system should be around 500 gallons with a 2:1 growbed:tank ratio, with a sump of at least 2/3 the size of the fish tank.

I haven't really planned this out on paper, however I think I have many of the basics. I've been lurking the site for a fair while. I'm planning a CHIFT PIST I think it's called; the aquarium, which I may need to raise up a bit on blocks will overflow into the barrels, which I'm hoping I can just leave as barrels as they came with a tap at the bottom and an overflow outlet at the top. I'm going to try to set it up so that the barrels overflow into a sump underneath the aquarium. I'm hoping to initally set it up as a constant flow, and later put the pump on a timer.

I'll try to take photos and measurements and mock something up in Google Sketchup when time allows. I really should have planned this out before going out and buying stuff but that fish tank was only $200 Cdn, and it was just around the corner. Normally a brand new tank like that goes for somewhere north of $1200. It's been holding salt water to disinfect it for the past week with no leaks.

Still to do:
drain and tap the overflow on the fish tank
locate the plumbing supplies
fabricate a sump tank, likely from cutting rain barrels in half and plumbing them together
fabricate a lid for the fish tank with lights
get hydroton
I have a few catfish, some sort of wild goldfish and mountain minnows and they will be my guinea pigs, I'll see if I can keep them alive over the winter.

The electrician is coming tomorrow to add a circuit to the house, he's going to look at adding a circuit to the future greenhouse as well.

Before I build anything I really need to post my plans here for review, hopefully I can do that in the next week as I'm really excited and I want to start building and growing something.

The 55 gallon rain barrels seem larger than I expected, somehow.

Great! Will be looking forward to those pics

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Here are some pics of the parts I'm using to assemble this system. Everything is offline right now. Had a sparky in on the weekend who added some power outlets. Tomorrow I'm hoping to pick up a power washer and measure everything so I can get it into Sketchup. I picked up hydroton and a 100 gallon reservoir/sump tank. I hope I got that ST size right.

wild goldfish? whatever they are. Shiners, big minnows
[img]
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__LNrzw59PhA/S ... ldfish.jpg[/img]

120 gallon tank, 55 gallon olive barrels


with reservoir/sump tank


I know everyone wants the sump tank in the ground but I really can't afford/don't have the time to dig. I'll probably end up raising the fish tank and the barrels, and put the sump tank on a layer of styrofoam or something heavily insulated from the concrete floor which would really suck out any heat here in the winter in Toronto, Canada. I hope that does the trick. I think I'll be building a wood frame/polycarbonate greenhouse over the grapevine framework, you can just see the pipes in the background of the middle picture. I'll insulate everything in the winter.

OK somehow that last post went bad and lost the ability to edit. let's try again:
Here are some pics of the parts I'm using to assemble this system. Everything is offline right now. Had a sparky in on the weekend who added some power outlets. Tomorrow I'm hoping to pick up a power washer and measure everything so I can get it into Sketchup. I picked up hydroton and a 100 gallon reservoir/sump tank. I hope I got that ST size right.

wild goldfish? whatever they are. Shiners, big minnows
[img]
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__LNrzw59PhA/S ... ldfish.jpg[/img]

120 gallon tank, 55 gallon olive barrels


with reservoir/sump tank
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/__LNrzw59PhA/S ... t+view.jpg

I know everyone wants the sump tank in the ground but I really can't afford/don't have the time to dig. I'll probably end up raising the fish tank and the barrels, and put the sump tank on a layer of styrofoam or something heavily insulated from the concrete floor which would really suck out any heat here in the winter in Toronto, Canada. I hope that does the trick. I think I'll be building a wood frame/polycarbonate greenhouse over the grapevine framework, you can just see the pipes in the background of the middle picture. I'll insulate everything in the winter.

no idear why I can't seem to place images inline in the post. As far as I can tell, I'm copying the image location and not the link location. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

oh: it's about 6 p.m. in the eve in the above pics. I think the site gets full sun from around 10:30-4:30. I think the neighbour will be building a greenhouse on his side (the south side) and I'm guessing it's going to block some of my sunlight, I don't really know how much. The end result should look like a regular hoop greenhouse, running East-West, split down the middle lengthwise along the property line. I'll have the North half. The Northernmost wall will probably be part brick or stone and be insulated. I may try to put a mirror or curved metal object facing south, on the North side, reflecting sun onto the brick wall in the winter to try to reclaim some heat, and I could stick a solar water heater of some type on the garage roof. We'll see how the first winter goes.

Nice fishtank, I just got me a 150 gallon saltwater set up for $400. That heavy sucker has been on the utility trailer for a week now. I'm moving out the 75 and 55 gallon tanks to make room for this. My plans are to raise a few tilapia in the house with the biofilter and a few gutter pipe strawberries and lettuce in the window, until I get something acceptable to the LDWF.

_________________
There is room for all God's creatures,
Right next to the mashed potatos
The purpose of government is to provide service,
The purpose of the media is to provide vasoline.
http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6945

What I'm about to say has to be taken with a pinch of salt. I would be somewhat cautious about using rain-barrels (which are made of some kinfd of polymer I suppose) in the system for long periods - reason we don't quite know the effects of micro quantities of polymer in our food.

Are there eqivalents of rain barrels made of glass/Porcelain (note that some glass/Porcelain have lead added but it's less common today is what I gather) that are available for a resonable cost.

Hi Dennis,

I completely agree with you. I'd prefer to use glass, but it's expensive and heavy, so there are added expenses up front to transporting and building a system out of glass tanks. One of these expenses is labour; I have a bad back and could never move the glass tanks myself, so any time the tanks need to be moved I'd have to hire labour. Another option is clay beds, but in a city I can't use pigs to tamp down the clay, meaning I need to hire people and equipment, which greatly escalates the costs.

The olive barrels are considered food grade, but I'm still not entirely comfortable.

Generally speaking, I figure that much of the food we eat has been exposed to plastics of some type; tins are actually thin plastic containers using a tin structure to reinforce the plastic container the food is in; I don't eat much tinned food for this reason, or buy bottled drinks in plastic containers. I never thought about it until I bought the barrels, but I guess all those tasty olives and things I buy from the salad bar were transported in plastic barrels. I think the effects of plastic containers and plumbing in a recirculating system aren't known. A possible mitigating factor is the biological slime that coats the system after it's been up and running for awhile. This slime could act as a barrier of sorts. The plastics are already in the food supply in abundance, many greenhouses and hydroponics systems use plastic, so while I do have some concerns and I don't think these olive barrels are ideal, at least I have some control over what goes into the system. At least there will never be any other chemical fertilizers, pesticides, antibiotics or other drugs added to the system and so I hope it will still be safer than my regular super market food supply.

I've been thinking about these issues, and I'm going to investigate the possibility of using one of the barrels as a form to build ferrocement growbeds and see how these do. They're still heavy but very cheap to build. I'll probably build several mini ferrocement tanks and a mini system as a test and see how well it handles the Canadian winter temperature fluctuations. I'm not sure if I'll be able to get a proper greenhouse built this year and I may have to shut the system down for the winter. Ferrocement still leaks various compounds into the water as it cures, but it's considered potable water safe. Another option is to paint the ferrocement with the same type of paint used for public water tanks, again it's considered potable water safe, but it's chemicals and I'm not sure I like that idea either.

I've been thinking about these issues for a long time, I figure the important thing is that it's time to take some action, to get a system up and running, and upgrade it as I'm able.

Good point, I missed that.



Very true. Optimization in iterations

I'm just starting to learn about plumbing but I'm thinking of plumbing it up with a 1 " bulkhead overflow at the top of the fish tank with a straight bit of PVC(red) that has 5-7 Ts. Each T would have a tap attached to a tap or valve (blue) and from there I'd have a hose or something that allows me to finish the line to the top of each barrel. I don't want to cut the barrels just yet, I want to stand 4-6 upright and use them as they are. There will be an extra tap going back to the sump or fish tank for aeration/control.


The flexible hose from the sump pump into the fish tank is 3/4" I think.

The barrels came with taps at the bottom and overflow bulkheads at the top, they just look like standard garden taps. They might be made of an unsuitable or non foodsafe material, I have to check and replace if necessary. Each barrel will have a loop siphon draining into the sump.

Does anyone see any issues with this set up, before I go buy the plumbing and tap the tank?

The sump tank will go on a sheet of styrofoam and plastic on the ground. I'll have to raise the fish tank stand a bit.

How do I calculate the height the barrels need to be above ground/or sump level? If I just build them a stand that puts the barrel drains a few inches above the sump, and a few inches below the fish tank overflow will that do the trick?

Also, my sump is 100 gallons and my fish tank is 120 gallons. Am I going to be able to pull off flood and drain, or will I find my sump tank is too small? All this time I've been focusing on getting my grow beds to = x2 of my fish tank... but I've got enough extra barrels to fabricate a larger sump.

My suggestion (if it's not too much of an extra work for you.)
To me a schematic of the system with a wee bit of description would be more readable than a relatively lenthy description.

The easiest way in my experience to do this:
1) draw the schematic with hand on a piece of paper and label the parts.
2)Take a snap of the schematic at close range with a camera (as opposed to a scan which can be more tedious to do) and post it online.

Yes I think I'm going to do that. I tried google sketchup but ran into issues on Linux/wine and can't be bothered. The manual sketch is the way to go.

I tried my hand at a sketch, this is (very) roughly to scale but should give an idea as to my intention. Now that I look at it, the sump does look a bit shallow?

Any feedback appreciated. I tried to make the image clickable so it should give you a bigger version if you click it. I couldn't find a happy medium without more messing around.

Rather than trying to cut a hole in the glass tank, and putting in a bulkhead fitting look in this thead at no holes overflows. Some really good info.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4086

_________________
There is room for all God's creatures,
Right next to the mashed potatos
The purpose of government is to provide service,
The purpose of the media is to provide vasoline.
http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6945

Even though I contributed heavily to the no holes overflow thread, I still advise lots of caution about using them as the only method of controlling water level in a tank since they can and do fail. I've found that those little air line check valves will fail over time and especially if they are out in the sun. If you have the means to put a proper hole in an aquarium without breaking it, then you should do so and install proper bulkhead or uniseal fittings though the aquarium wall or bottom.

Always go larger than you think you need for a gravity drain (SLO) from the fish tank in a CHIFT PIST system. If you pump plumbing is 3/4" then you definitely want to go larger than 1" on the drain line from the aquarium!!!!!!!

I have a 3" drain from my new big fish tank that is being fed by only part of the flow from my big pump that uses 1 1/2" plumbing. Definitely make the gravity drain at least twice the size of the pumped inlet.

Yes, make you sump tank bigger (especially in your cold climate, the more water you can have in there, the more stable you will make your greenhouse temperatures.)

Actually, that sump tank you got there might make a really good grow bed. Think about setting that "sump tank" on top of your barrels and use it as the grow bed and then let it drain into two/three of your barrels as the sump tank. Actually, many of us have talked about using gravel filled sump tanks to double as growbed/filtration as well as acting as sump. Just some ideas to totally mess up your plans

As far as heights. Your water level in your fish tank should be a couple inches above the gravel level in your grow beds and the bottom of your grow beds should be a couple inches above the sump tank. These are kinda minimums (I have gotten away with less fall if the tanks/beds are right next to or on top of eachother but the more fall you have to work with, the easier it is to get loop siphons to work properly.) The further you have to run the pipes, the more fall you want to work with.

Oh, and you might want to protect that aquarium from the sun a bit

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