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 Post subject: hooked's system
PostPosted: Feb 15th, '12, 16:06 
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Hi All,

My first system was a temporary one (sorry no photos) composed of two 50L tubs for tank and growbed and a ?L pond used as sump. 11 Goldfish (after 4 passed in the first week) called it home and caused amazing growth for a few basil plates, the height of a simple shade had to be increased every second day. Lettuce and cabbage grew a treat until I was too busy to look after it and then it self seeded :) Anyhow I was hooked and planning the new system for the new house.

So a few months later we got the keys to the new place and I have been head down trying to finish everything and with whatever free time I get I setup up a second system. Its not what I planned but what I had time for. Its two blue-barrels with top third cut-off for growbeds and bottom two thirds for sump & FT.

Attachment:
File comment: Current setup
IMG_20120215_154611.jpg
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9 of the goldfish have been in there for two weeks, the other two are just too fast to catch.
10 silver perch fingerlings went in on the weekend.

Attachment:
File comment: Well you can see the goldfish...
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The plan is to add two more growbeds, convert over to mega affnan, put concrete soakwell around/over the sump. The current FT will be cut down to be one growbed as the SLO is to close to the top/edge and a new blue-barrel cut down for growbed and FT.

Longer term I want to get a couple of IBC and keep expanding...a nice area in the backyard has been reserved for this. I'll keep the blue-barrels and use as a fingerling system.

Attachment:
File comment: Can you see the guest I saw today?
IMG_20120215_133632.jpg
IMG_20120215_133632.jpg [ 62.68 KiB | Viewed 3254 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: hooked's system
PostPosted: Feb 15th, '12, 18:18 
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Hey Hooked :wave1:

superb little system you have there. I love it. :thumbright:

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 Post subject: Re: hooked's system
PostPosted: Feb 20th, '12, 11:47 
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Well my little guest the frog stayed around for a few days but is now no where to be seen. I caught him swimming with the fishes a couple of times and it didn't seem to bother any of them.

I haven't done anything else with the system yet, just feeding twice a day and they are just about leaping out at feed time.

Seedlings keep sprouting and dying, I am pretty sure it is heat as the spot gets full afternoon sun. How long can a system this size go without suitably sized plants?

Also need some input on possible system layout in the reserved area. Below are 4 choices. The idea I am going with:
1) is staged build
2) 2-3 systems; fingerling & other(s). Fingerling is blue barrel, other is 5xIBC tops=1500L + 2xIBC tops=600L
3) interconnected sumps under IBC tops


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File comment: Ideas for layout
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 Post subject: Re: hooked's system
PostPosted: Feb 20th, '12, 12:48 
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System A would be the easiest to plumb. It's hard to determine accessibility from your drawings - are there any obstructions to getting at the beds from outside the area? Is there something along the wall by the fishtank already because you could add another IBC growbed along there if you can get at the tank from the other side?


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 Post subject: Re: hooked's system
PostPosted: Feb 20th, '12, 13:33 
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Thanks Scotty, A) was my original idea but I got impatient and built the barrel system.

I have updated the diagram with dimensions and obstructions, the north side is a fence and east side is a shed.


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 Post subject: Re: hooked's system
PostPosted: Feb 20th, '12, 13:50 
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hooked wrote:
Seedlings keep sprouting and dying, I am pretty sure it is heat as the spot gets full afternoon sun. How long can a system this size go without suitably sized plants?


Have you got a test kit yet hooked, be interesting to see what nutients you have available. Id put a small dollop of seasol in once a week to help with trace elements. Maybe you could make a little shadehouse using star pickets or left over offcuts from around the house just to keep that sun off new seedlings.

My new set up will look a lot like "A" except only one row of 4 GB's, it makes plumbing a lot easier and you will have the best access to everything that way.

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 Post subject: Re: hooked's system
PostPosted: May 11th, '12, 10:48 
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Well the little system is going nice, I moved it a little due to the winter sun was not reaching one of the grow beds and that has helped. Testing, when done, has been consistently safe and there are no losses. Some seedlings I have added are doing well and the SP have pretty much gone to sleep huddling together at the bottom of the tank.

Attachment:
File comment: seedlings planted
IMG_20120406_101037.jpg
IMG_20120406_101037.jpg [ 87.09 KiB | Viewed 2904 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Seedling growth
IMG_20120511_102406.jpg
IMG_20120511_102406.jpg [ 77.08 KiB | Viewed 2904 times ]


At the beginning March I got a IBC system from Backyard and proceeded to put it together over the next few weekends. And started it cycling, beginning April planted some seedlings left over from the barrel system. I got 15 trout advanced fingerlings from Woodvale on 21/4 and everything was going nice, fish feeding.

Attachment:
File comment: seedlings planted
IMG_20120406_101045.jpg
IMG_20120406_101045.jpg [ 91.47 KiB | Viewed 2904 times ]


I thought 15 fingerlings wouldn't push the system, I planned to have another growbed before they grew out.

The fish stopped feeding, so I stopped feeding and I thought it might have been a shock thing as I started to build the sides to the IBC which I thought might have been loud with the drilling of the tin.
They continued to not to feed, I was dropping a couple pellets to see if they would eat but nothing, so I tested (I have a Tetratest kit):
08/5/2012 (evening ) ph=8 am=1.5mg/l nitrite=3.3-33mg/l .....never seen a red before
09/5/2012 (midday ) Did 30-40% water change
10/5/2012 (morning) am= >0mg/l nitrite= >1.6mg/l .....first fish death
10/5/2012 (midday ) Did 30-40% water change, Second fish death
10/5/2012 (evening ) am= >0mg/l nitrite= >1.6mg/l .....third fish dying (upside down, not moving but breathing), isolated it
10/5/2012 (morning ) third fish dead, forth fish death

so four deaths found in tank and also found a fish outside of tank (cats?) total 5-deaths.

OK the only other thing I can think of is salting

They are probably all going to die right?


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 Post subject: Re: hooked's system
PostPosted: May 11th, '12, 10:51 
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This is what the IBC currently looks like, the side held up by pickets is because that is temp until I get next IBC which will be placed next to current one.

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File comment: With start of tin sides
IMG_20120511_102324.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: hooked's system
PostPosted: May 12th, '12, 13:13 
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Another fish death. That is 6 from 15.

Ammonia has settled to 0.
Nitrites just won't come down and I haven't
been feeding.

I have been slowly this morning salting 500g into 600L fish tank.

It appears the survivors are the smallest.

Any suggestions?


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 Post subject: Re: hooked's system
PostPosted: May 12th, '12, 14:46 
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Salting to 1ppt will mitigate against nitrite shock (you certainly have high nitrites) but what if it's more than just the nitrites causing the deaths? Inspect a dead fish, look for any spots, sores or any signs of disease, make sure to check the gills and fins; then very carefully inspect one of the surviving fish (I reckon the best way to do this is to take a photo of the fish, which can be analysed in detail for much longer then you'd be able to hold/restrain a fish, which alleviates stress on the fish). Salting up to about 3ppt (1.8kg of salt in 600L of water) can aid as disinfectant for the fish, just in case there is any disease in there. Any diseased fish should be quarantined from any healthy fish in a separate, aerated, 5-8ppt brine solution .

Is there any way for rain run-off to get into the FT? We've had a bit of rain recently (assuming you're somewhere near Perth metro area), so maybe some pollutant washed in? Where does water from the galvanised shed roof end up? Look all around for any possible contamination sources.

I'd continue to avoid feeding, keep changing the water and consider adding more salt. (Remember to keep the salt level up after changing the water, or another way of doing it, if you're going to add say 200L replacement water, add 600g of salt (3ppt) to this water then slowly add the brine to the FT) after taking out 200L from the FT first.

Even 15 small fish in such a small, not-yet-"fully"-cycled immature system could have been too high a stocking density. I'm not entirely convinced of arguments which some people make about small fish not making as much waste (and therefore ammonia) as larger fish, but now that you have a lighter stocking things should be more manageable until the system matures?

Maybe a lesson to learn here could be, stock your system to what your system can handle now not what it might be capable of handling some time in the future?


Scott

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 Post subject: Re: hooked's system
PostPosted: May 16th, '12, 15:38 
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Thanks Scott.
I have caught some bug and havent been up much.

Deaths have continued, 9 in total now. But none for last two days today so far. Below are pictures of a dead one. There appears to be blood blemishes under the gills.

Attachment:
IMG_20120512_155848.jpg
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Attachment:
IMG_20120512_155840.jpg
IMG_20120512_155840.jpg [ 135.59 KiB | Viewed 2744 times ]


I have salted upto ~1.7ppt. In terms of disease what could be the source after 2 weeks?

I did hose the shed to see where it would run off and with a heavy rain it could run into the grow-bed. I caught and tested some of the shed run off and it appears to be a possible source, it does show signs of nitrites but nothing like what is in system.

Attachment:
IMG_20120515_102059.jpg
IMG_20120515_102059.jpg [ 51.74 KiB | Viewed 2744 times ]


I have never heard the suggestion that small fish make as much waste as mature, I was assuming that smaller fish would produce less waste and hence the numbers would be ok.

This is my first time with trout. So I accept it is a learning curve but the fact the nitrites are not coming down is puzzling.


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 Post subject: Re: hooked's system
PostPosted: May 16th, '12, 15:52 
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Id suggest its nitrite poisoning.

Basiscally you are cycling your system with 15 trout with about 200L of virgin media. With the cool temps at the moment it could take about 6 weeks to cycle which is not in your favour.

Are you seeing any nitrates yet?

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 Post subject: Re: hooked's system
PostPosted: May 16th, '12, 16:34 
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The system started cycling last week of March, with some seeding from the small system and was about 4 weeks before trout went in, so has been cycling about 7 weeks. In the last week it has dropped down to 5 fish.

The test kit doesn't even do nitrates...looks like time to get another test kit.

Go on let me have it. :)


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 Post subject: Re: hooked's system
PostPosted: May 16th, '12, 16:44 
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I somehow got the idea you added the IBC into the more mature blue-barrel system? Or, are your "old" system and your "new" system operating independently of each other?

If they're independent, then I agree with Charlie and my point before is all the more relevant:
bunson wrote:
Maybe a lesson to learn here could be, stock your system to what your system can handle now not what it might be capable of handling some time in the future?

Immature systems cannot handle the loads which older systems can handle. Brand-spanking-new systems can handle very little, which is why many people (including me) advocate fish-less cycling as a less-stressful option; less stress on the fish and less stress on you.

What have you got in the "old" system and how "old" is it? Can you transfer some of the remaining fish?

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 Post subject: Re: hooked's system
PostPosted: May 16th, '12, 16:49 
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hooked wrote:

Go on let me have it. :)



Wasn't your better half that came in and bought a test kit this arvo was it? :lol:

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