All times are UTC + 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Which is your favorite cold water fish?
Catfish 17%  17%  [ 7 ]
Trout 31%  31%  [ 13 ]
Carp 7%  7%  [ 3 ]
Bluegill 12%  12%  [ 5 ]
Crappie 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Bass 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Perch 26%  26%  [ 11 ]
Other 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 42
Author Message
PostPosted: Mar 11th, '12, 10:57 
Offline

Joined: Mar 11th, '12, 09:43
Posts: 7
Gender: Male
Are you human?: yes
Location: Minnesota
Hello experts!

I am currently planning my system and have been running into a major issue. I would love to use Blue Tilapia, but after hours and hours and hours of researching methods to keep the greenhouse and tank warm enough to survive Minnesota, USA cold winters (with avg. winter temps at 5F [-15C] and lows of -30F [-35C]) I have just about given up. The costs and effort will most likely not be worth it just to have that particular fish in my particular region. So alas, now I am looking for an alternative.

Why I would like to grow Blue Tilapia is because of the the quick lifecycle (fingerlings to filets), ability to have babies and not eat themselves (no restocking every harvest and dealing with separate tanks), ability to eat my table scraps and chicken poop and other stuff I can make or find (I do not want to be buying commercial feed and wish to keep it strictly organic), high density living, and ability to handle my poor caregiving skills (until I learn the ropes).

I do not mind Carp at all. I hear Channel Catfish or Trout, might be good. Walleye (my state fish) would be awesome if they didn't eat themselves and grew so slow. Perch, Blue Gill and/or Crappies are also local here. Actually, I don't care which fish as long as they fit the above stipulations.

So maybe you all with real experience can guide me in the right direction for further research?

My initial test plans (before I revamp it up to a bigger system) is a 80ft2 (9m2) green house with 75ft2 (23m2) in terraced grow beds over an in-ground 700g (2600L) 3ft (1m) deep tank with a flood and drain system. Some heating is okay, just keeping it up at 60F (15F) is absurd as I am trying to do it all solar.

THANKS!


Top
 Profile  
 
    Advertisement
 
PostPosted: Mar 11th, '12, 14:50 
Offline
A posting God
A posting God
User avatar

Joined: Aug 26th, '10, 07:17
Posts: 3252
Gender: Male
Are you human?: YES
Location: Oregon, USA
You might also want to consider bullhead catfish (black, brown or yellow - black get the largest and are the most common in Minnesota from what I've read). http://www.epa.gov/region1/ge/thesite/restofriver/reports/final_era/B%20-%20Focus%20Species%20Profiles/EcoRiskProfile_brown_bullhead.pdf

This is more of a warm water fish but is durable and native to your area. The New Alchemy Institute did some work with them years ago. There are some people growing them in aquaponics but I can't give you any results from having done this myself. I know most fisherman consider this a trash fish but they were exported to Europe -

Quote:
Known for its delicious taste, its reputation among food lovers prompted the export of live bullheads from the US to Europe, though it never grew as large or as tasty there.
Reared commercially in the southern US.


The quote is from this website - http://www.ctfishfinder.com/view_fish_type.php?fish_id=6

Maybe do these in Summer and Trout in Winter? I'm not sure trout would take to table scraps but maybe if you added an intermediate step with vermiculture or Black Soldier Fly Larvae (this might be hard in your area).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mar 11th, '12, 15:59 
Offline

Joined: Mar 11th, '12, 09:43
Posts: 7
Gender: Male
Are you human?: yes
Location: Minnesota
scotty435 wrote:
You might also want to consider bullhead catfish (black, brown or yellow - black get the largest and are the most common in Minnesota from what I've read). http://www.epa.gov/region1/ge/thesite/restofriver/reports/final_era/B%20-%20Focus%20Species%20Profiles/EcoRiskProfile_brown_bullhead.pdf

Maybe do these in Summer and Trout in Winter?


Thanks for your input scotty! Yes, eating bullheads here is taboo. The thought of it makes me squeamish. When fishing, we always throw them back or keep them only for burying in the yards as fertilizer. But that said, I will look into it, and maybe try eating some. The PDF you linked mentions how careful they are with their young, which I like. I like the idea of just being able to set the system up and year after year the fish will maintain their numbers as long as I eat enough along the way.

Trout seem good too, and some have even suggested that if I am careful and put a lot of effort into keeping the tank cool, they will survive the summer. It just makes everything a bit backwards because the plants will be slowing in the cold as the trout will be in their peak poop output. They also take a couple years to start spawning, and I don't know (can't find the info) but will the babies be able to handle growing up in the tank as well?

I kind of just want to stick with one kind of fish with this system as I am planning this smaller one for use by my parents as they grow older for both hobby and food. Less productivity during the winter is okay, I just want the self-contained system to be able to survive the couple of really bad months and kick up again when it gets warmer.

What system do you use scotty? Do you grow trout? How do you like them?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mar 11th, '12, 17:36 
Offline
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
User avatar

Joined: Nov 16th, '06, 08:44
Posts: 27177
Location: Gerringong
Gender: Male
Location: NSW Australia
You'd be really, really, really lucky.... if your trout spawned in your tank... well without help that is... and even luckier if the eggs developed, and made it through to fry.. :wink:

_________________
>

Fresh By Nature - Distributor of Aquaponic Systems and Products in NSW
http://www.freshbynature.com.au


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mar 11th, '12, 17:54 
Offline
A posting God
A posting God
User avatar

Joined: Aug 26th, '10, 07:17
Posts: 3252
Gender: Male
Are you human?: YES
Location: Oregon, USA
I have grown trout in the past (my first system) and they weren't that difficult but there is a learning curve so stock lightly at first no matter what fish you choose.

There are some threads on the forum that discuss breeding trout and Troutman has done/is doing this commercially. I wouldn't get my hopes up from what I've read.

Considering night temps in Minnesota are still sometimes below freezing in June you might have a shot at trout all through the Summer.

I'm using Chift Pist with Constant Flood. Here's my system thread http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=9511

Your system might work better as Constant Flood since that will help reduce the fluctuations in the fish tank. If you design it right, you can do it either way but CF is much easier to get going because you only need the standpipe and gravel guard but not the siphons (you can add these later if you want but it looks like you don't need to - see the BYAP trials thread).

It might help you to plan a small system that you can heat for seedlings in the colder months but this will depend on what the water temp in your system is.


Re - the other fish you mentioned.

Yellow Perch grow at a good rate and would also be a reasonable choice plus you would have a better chance of getting them to breed. Growing Power does a lot with these and there are some people that have tried them on the forum. I don't think I've seen anyone who has done breeding except those at universities or commercial breeders but it sounds possible at least.

Bluegill grow slowly but as long as your willing to put up with that they are very durable.

Crappie are apparently hard to feed train but I don't recall anyone in this group has tried them yet.

Not sure about Channel catfish. I think their diet has less garbage and more fish than bullheads, though I could be mistaken.

If you don't care about eating the fish then goldfish would probably work pretty well.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mar 11th, '12, 19:51 
Offline

Joined: Mar 11th, '12, 09:43
Posts: 7
Gender: Male
Are you human?: yes
Location: Minnesota
Well first off, thanks for letting me see your system. Gives me hope that one can build such a nice looking setup. That will be important to me.

It is also hopeful to hear that a constant flow produces just about the same as a flood and drain. I was thinking that the fish crap would be more evenly distributed with a syphon, but looks like it does not matter much even if it is the case. My parents will like that because I will be gone for months at a time and I dreaded getting a clog and all the issues that can go along with that if I am away! I had planned on syncopating the drain amongst the tanks to keep the level constant, but CF sounds much more secure. You have saved a lot of work by linking that thread. Thanks.

I plan on making a trip over to Growing Power personally when back home and will ask them directly about the Yellow Perch, I see they are feeding them pellets, while they are feeding the Tilapia a mixture of junk. I wonder why and maybe by going there I will learn a trick to get Tilapia to last the winter (as well as tons of other stuff to be sure). I also want to know more about the red worms they are using.

I saw your post about seeds not sprouting in 50F water, so I will definitely thinking about a mini heated system which also means I could put baby fish in there for the winter. I still want to keep it is simple as possible however, for the sake of my parents, and maybe a simple kitchen window indoor seed tray would suffice.

Your summary of fish shortens the list of possibilities but that is exactly what I am looking for. You mention Goldfish but not Carp. Maybe by mentioning Goldfish you are mentioning Carp (or Koi as well). Actually, to me Carp is a very attractive option, because eating them is the main point for me, and one that I am finding little online info about. Here in China (I live in Beijing for the time being) Grass Carp are the main fish eaten, the majority of which are farm raised on human shit and food scraps. I even asked my girlfriend (who is Chinese) to look it up for me in Chinese and her preliminary findings yielded nothing. Weird since they are the most cultivated fish species on the planet. Very, very hardy as well, so much so that they are invasive (Asian Carp, not quite clear yet on the different species).

Once I find a good fish, I want to know about snails, crayfish, mussels, and/or other fun things to combine in the system. A couple of bullheads couldn't hurt either.

Thanks again scotty.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mar 12th, '12, 04:00 
Offline
Bordering on Legend
Bordering on Legend

Joined: Feb 9th, '12, 21:55
Posts: 256
Images: 0
Gender: Male
Are you human?: yes
Location: Italia
Hi scotty -

I voted carp because that's what I'll be going with.
Hardy, they get big, cheap and easily available for me. They survive low concetrations of DO and the widest temperature range.
They seem like the perfect fish with which to start AP for a newbie!

One of the problems with your poll is the self-propagating part: carp will breed reatively easily (look at aquarium-enthusiasts on the net for the Koi karp breeding: common carp is basically the same) but only after a couple of years and only once a year. :sad:


Top
 Profile Personal album  
 
PostPosted: Mar 12th, '12, 04:53 
Offline
A posting God
A posting God
User avatar

Joined: Aug 26th, '10, 07:17
Posts: 3252
Gender: Male
Are you human?: YES
Location: Oregon, USA
Hi tojo :wave:

Quote:
They survive low concetrations of DO and the widest temperature range.

This is also true of bullhead

billycojack, carp would almost certainly work as tojo has pointed out. Most US citizens aren't big fans of carp as a food fish (probably because of the bones) so I tend not to think of them that way (hence the goldfish suggestion). Here are a couple of articles that show how to get them ready to cook.

http://dnr.state.il.us/fish/carpprep.pdf

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Nature-Community/1975-05-01/How-To-Clean-Fillet-Cook-Carp.aspx

I think carp and bullhead would cohabit but not sure if the young would be safe.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mar 12th, '12, 05:04 
Offline
Bordering on Legend
Bordering on Legend

Joined: Feb 9th, '12, 21:55
Posts: 256
Images: 0
Gender: Male
Are you human?: yes
Location: Italia
scotty435 wrote:
Most US citizens aren't big fans of carp as a food fish (probably because of the bones) so I tend not to think of them that way


Hey Scotty, I have always found this interesting and somewhat funny: that in half of the world carp are considered good eating and are subject to intensive a-culture, while in the other half they are considered nasty pests and bad eating (I read a joke on the forum: put carp in the oven with some mud... eat the mud and ditch the carp .. or something similar) :think: :)

I honestly don't know anything about bullhead though :dontknow: they look like a nice option though from the links!


Top
 Profile Personal album  
 
PostPosted: Mar 12th, '12, 05:17 
Offline
A posting God
A posting God
User avatar

Joined: Aug 26th, '10, 07:17
Posts: 3252
Gender: Male
Are you human?: YES
Location: Oregon, USA
Bullhead have a similar problem in the states. First like carp they can taste bad if grown under certain conditions - kind of a muddy flavor. Unfortunately bullhead are usually found in muddy areas and wind up tasting this way. It's probably something that could be cured by purging them for a week before harvest.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mar 12th, '12, 05:46 
Offline
Bordering on Legend
Bordering on Legend

Joined: Feb 9th, '12, 21:55
Posts: 256
Images: 0
Gender: Male
Are you human?: yes
Location: Italia
I read somewhere on the internet (probably this forum) that AP carp won't taste like wild carp because it doesn't spend all its' day moving mud around to look for food... Maybe it's the same for bullhead and catfish in general. Sort of like a continuous purge.


Top
 Profile Personal album  
 
PostPosted: Mar 12th, '12, 06:05 
Offline
A posting God
A posting God
User avatar

Joined: Aug 26th, '10, 07:17
Posts: 3252
Gender: Male
Are you human?: YES
Location: Oregon, USA
That probably is true for catfish in general. There's only one way to be certain.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mar 12th, '12, 14:12 
Offline
Xtreme Contributor
Xtreme Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Apr 8th, '09, 10:51
Posts: 199
Location: Missouri, USA
Gender: Male
Are you human?: FISH
Location: Missouri, USA
Bullheads that come from clean water are actually quite tasty. I lived in ND and MN for many, many years and am an avid fisherman, so I totally understand the bullhead stigma there. hehe... However, they really are pretty good eating.

They are pretty easy to breed as well, but they do need some room in order breed reliably. Fair warning, contrary to the prevailing notion that bullheads constantly dwell in mud and consume detritus material, they are actually quite piscavorous, so protection or removal of young fry would be required.

_________________
White Brook Tilapia Farm
Kansas City, MO USA
http://www.tilapiasource.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mar 13th, '12, 04:27 
Offline
A posting God
A posting God
User avatar

Joined: Aug 26th, '10, 07:17
Posts: 3252
Gender: Male
Are you human?: YES
Location: Oregon, USA
Thanks for the info kellen.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mar 13th, '12, 05:56 
Offline
Xtreme Contributor
Xtreme Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Apr 8th, '09, 10:51
Posts: 199
Location: Missouri, USA
Gender: Male
Are you human?: FISH
Location: Missouri, USA
No problem! :)

_________________
White Brook Tilapia Farm
Kansas City, MO USA
http://www.tilapiasource.com


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC + 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Portal by phpBB3 Portal © phpBB Türkiye
[ Time : 0.586s | 19 Queries | GZIP : Off ]