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PostPosted: Sep 10th, '15, 00:42 
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Also, so even assuming it works, and you're absorbing the ammonia and whatnot, you then have to replace your zeolite, often. And while you can bake it to purge, it loses it's porous nature over time. It'll eventually stop sponging it up.


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PostPosted: Sep 10th, '15, 00:44 
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Just because clickbait says it's true... Doesn't mean that some guy on the internet overturned all of science.


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PostPosted: Sep 10th, '15, 02:32 
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This is the first thread I've found that's seemed to actually analyze it, http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94835 and I'm sorry if I came across as an asshole, when i read some of those posts they come across as more pointed and... Just plain rude than intended. I'm simply skeptical and would prefer to stick with proven techniques. Request the DVD and try it out i suppose, but I'd have a backup system or start with a cheap fish that if this fails, won't be too expensive to replace.


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PostPosted: Sep 10th, '15, 06:57 
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sparhawk817 wrote:
If you believe in the science makes no difference in whether it works. So why does sodium Bentonite clay work these wonders, Assuming that laterite is magic and pulls the ammonia to it, why would the bentonite do something different than our hydroton? Also, so NO2 is nitrites NO3 is nitrates, N2 is nitrogen gas.


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Why would that happen with "anoxic conversion?" It doesn't provide any scientific explanation.

Firstly, there IS a great deal of proven science about anoxic N2 production.. if I can find the schematic I'll reference it..

.
Naturally... don't shoot the messenger... :thumbleft:

Bentonite clay.. its clay.. and I bought the wrong one to play with.. I mentioned it because that is what the manufacturer say the clay was.
I got CLUMPING CLAY, which is useless.. it goes gooey and stops the free flow.. there are brands referenced that are said to work, but we don't have tesco in Oz.. so back looking for the best one.. I'm thinking something a size a bit bigger than rice..

clay balls.. I understand that the principle is that there are small gaps between the grains, that discourage the free flow of water but allows ion migration.. Goldie-locks clay.. just the right size one is what's needed..

Hence the big NO to a clay sand, and to coarse structures.. they observe that free flow of water would allow O2 into the structure, and too fine would limit the claimed free passage of ions..

It is easy for us to be sceptical, and say "bull" but I can't see how Koi owners, (for many years) would tolerate high ammonia and nitrates with a techno-babble device that does nothing...
..
.


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PostPosted: Sep 10th, '15, 07:20 
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..
Again.. don't shoot the messenger.. and use Google to search for ANOXIC NITROGEN CYCLE..

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2014/5/chemistry

https://www.princeton.edu/nitrogen/publ ... robing.pdf

You don't have to look far, and then you only need to replicate the conditions, and this basket system seems to do just that :dontknow:
..
.


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PostPosted: Sep 10th, '15, 07:40 
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sparhawk817 wrote:
.... Just plain rude than intended............ I'm simply skeptical and would prefer to stick with proven techniques. Request the DVD and try it out i suppose, .

..
Don't worrie, there are many in this world who think they alone have all the answers..
But when you read just some of the deep scientific papers, you see reference, over and over again to. Anoxic/wetlands De-Nitrification etc. Etc.

If you have not already gathered, I too am skeptical, but I do read the words that suggests it is genuine science.. many dot.edu's can't be all wrong
The problem is likely that because it's hobbyists that are adapting the technology, some will run them down as fools..
..
As for risking things.. I don't see ANY risk, provided the right materials are chosen..

Under RAS, our enemy is AMMONIA, and if there s a practical way of removing it directly, then that is GOOD.. and likely risk free.
Baskets in a sump seems logical... keeping muck from destroying the process, would be the enemy


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PostPosted: Sep 10th, '15, 10:29 
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Attachment:
AP-Anoxic-De-Nitric.jpg
AP-Anoxic-De-Nitric.jpg [ 29.77 KiB | Viewed 2350 times ]


Just one of many depicting the Oxygen and Anoxic cycle and in between..

and if you seek local knowledge .. like the Yarra river

http://scu.edu.au/coastal-biogeochemistry/index.php/41/


Again - this is NOT of interest to normal APer's, so please don't comment with AP type observations that are just so obvious..


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PostPosted: Sep 10th, '15, 10:33 
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thats a confusing diagram.


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PostPosted: Sep 10th, '15, 11:37 
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Yavimaya wrote:
that's a confusing diagram.


I think it is only confusing because it depicts ALL the different cycle paths that are possible..
Physical conditions will determine which path the Nitrogen takes..

I wanted to find a similar one depicting a pond, but can't remember where I saw it..

I like pictures/depictions :support:
..
.


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PostPosted: Sep 10th, '15, 12:12 
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Like this?

Image


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PostPosted: Sep 10th, '15, 12:41 
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..
Similar.. Same-Same-But-Different :-)

but the first one depicts the greater complexity/options of conversion path-ways - No I DONT understand it ALL, but I assume the writer did..
..
.


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PostPosted: Sep 10th, '15, 13:56 
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lol one would hope the author did.


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PostPosted: Sep 10th, '15, 16:03 
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Peter

I did not say it was not possible, I just said I would not do it (and I disagreed with your assumptions on zeolite).
The idea, that only certain bacteria will inhabit these baskets and that only the nitrogen cycle would be in play is something I do not think will happen unless under ideal conditions (or you are prepared to accept other by products).

Sometimes I think it is funny that a forum called BYAP has a lot of BYAQ but very little BYHP (aside from Peeponics and a very few others). :)


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PostPosted: Sep 10th, '15, 16:26 
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From a previous post, salt and zeolite should not be an issue, marine aquarium enthusiasts have been using it for years. My stonefish and corals were healthy when i ran it in a fluidisd bed container similar to a moving bed bio filter for over a year.
I am about to do the same again on ani's ap system as a test i can forward on the results if you like.


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PostPosted: Sep 10th, '15, 17:14 
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please definitely give more info if you can and / or let us know how it goes, rossco.


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