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PostPosted: Sep 18th, '15, 00:40 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Good guess there Stuart.

I was going to ask a few questions along those lines since elevated Nitrite (assuming the system is fully cycled and beyond the nitrite spike which can last a long time.)

1-what kind of bio-filter is it?
2-are you removing solids so they are not filling up your bio-filter?
3-are you providing your bio-filter with ample aeration?

Anaerobic or Anoxic (low oxygen) situations can lead to denitrification, converting nitrate back into nitrite which could then be offgassed as atmospheric nitrogen if the water was passing through a degassing stage after the low oxygen stage but if your bio-filter doesn't have enough oxygen or if there is too much solids going into your biofilter (remember that most biofilters are more efficient if they are not getting loaded down with solids) your problem could simply be that there isn't enough oxygen left over to finish the bio-filtration.

as a temporary stop gap till you figure out what is going on, what happens if you run the water to your media beds more each hour, perhaps even run constant flood for a while? Or do 15 on 15 off or 30 on 30 off?

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PostPosted: Sep 18th, '15, 02:45 
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TCLynx wrote:
Good guess there Stuart.

I was going to ask a few questions along those lines since elevated Nitrite (assuming the system is fully cycled and beyond the nitrite spike which can last a long time.)

1-what kind of bio-filter is it?
2-are you removing solids so they are not filling up your bio-filter?
3-are you providing your bio-filter with ample aeration?

Anaerobic or Anoxic (low oxygen) situations can lead to denitrification, converting nitrate back into nitrite which could then be offgassed as atmospheric nitrogen if the water was passing through a degassing stage after the low oxygen stage but if your bio-filter doesn't have enough oxygen or if there is too much solids going into your biofilter (remember that most biofilters are more efficient if they are not getting loaded down with solids) your problem could simply be that there isn't enough oxygen left over to finish the bio-filtration.

as a temporary stop gap till you figure out what is going on, what happens if you run the water to your media beds more each hour, perhaps even run constant flood for a while? Or do 15 on 15 off or 30 on 30 off?

Hey my friends,
thanks for your help.
My system is a gravity filter system.
at the bottom of the pond (35m3) we hsve s pipe connecztion to the bottom of the filter.
The first stage are 32 brushes with 15x80cm.
Then come the biofilter with helix which was aerated with 100l/min air compressors.
After them clear water pump chamber for gb pump (15/45 now 15/30) and permanent pump (45m3)

The nitrite was very long time cause system is 2 yrs old but last yrs always problems with green water or ill fish from hatchery.
Now we qusrantine carp indoor for 6 month and are save of parasits.

Flowrate ~38m3
Growbed 6m3/h running 15mins returns through pump.
Fish eats well and plants grow fantastic but can't feed them what they want :-)
Luxurious problrm maybe.
Found a dokumentation talking about zo much flow gor nitrification ?!

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PostPosted: Sep 18th, '15, 02:57 
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The problems with green water suggest high phosphate levels

Nitrite Oxidizing Bacteria need inorganic carbon (CO2) to build cells, check the alkalinity (aka carbonate hardness) of your water. This gives an indication of the amount of CO2 dissolved in water.


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PostPosted: Sep 18th, '15, 02:59 
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scotty435 wrote:
The problems with green water suggest high phosphate levels

Nitrite Oxidizing Bacteria need inorganic carbon (CO2) to build cells, check the alkalinity (aka carbonate hardness) of your water. This gives an indication of the amount of CO2 dissolved in water.

Ok i've to buy a testset.
Is a high or a low kh better ?

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PostPosted: Sep 18th, '15, 03:11 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Do you know if you are actually getting 100 lpm from the airpump at the depth you are pumping in that bio-filter?
Just because a pump says it does 100lpm nominally that doesn't mean it will actually deliver once it is having to work against some pressure like the water depth and an air stone.

Is it a moving media bed bio reactor type bio-filter or is it static? If it is moving, I understand that you only want enough air to keep it all moving well but you don't want to boil the media too violently. How much aeration do you have in other parts of the system? Are soilds building up in the brushes too much?

What do all your other water tests say?
Have you gotten a new nitrite test to check and make sure it isn't a faulty reading?
Where in the water flow do you usually scoop your samples for testing? Is there any variation if you take the water sample from another point in the flow?

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PostPosted: Sep 18th, '15, 03:20 
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TCLynx wrote:
Do you know if you are actually getting 100 lpm from the airpump at the depth you are pumping in that bio-filter?
Just because a pump says it does 100lpm nominally that doesn't mean it will actually deliver once it is having to work against some pressure like the water depth and an air stone.

Is it a moving media bed bio reactor type bio-filter or is it static? If it is moving, I understand that you only want enough air to keep it all moving well but you don't want to boil the media too violently. How much aeration do you have in other parts of the system? Are soilds building up in the brushes too much?

What do all your other water tests say?
Have you gotten a new nitrite test to check and make sure it isn't a faulty reading?
Where in the water flow do you usually scoop your samples for testing? Is there any variation if you take the water sample from another point in the flow?

Hey tclynx,
thanks for reply.
The compressor have a diagram in which depth how much air was released.
Its a moving bed filter.
We check the water from the bottom of fishtank (filter inlet) and outlet still the same.

Testkit is correct , indoor in breeding and quarantine no nitrite readable.
Ph 6.8
Ammonia < 0.02
Phosphorus 0.5
Nitrate 80
Iron 0.25
Potassium 30

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PostPosted: Sep 18th, '15, 03:21 
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tiggar wrote:
TCLynx wrote:
Do you know if you are actually getting 100 lpm from the airpump at the depth you are pumping in that bio-filter?
Just because a pump says it does 100lpm nominally that doesn't mean it will actually deliver once it is having to work against some pressure like the water depth and an air stone.

Is it a moving media bed bio reactor type bio-filter or is it static? If it is moving, I understand that you only want enough air to keep it all moving well but you don't want to boil the media too violently. How much aeration do you have in other parts of the system? Are soilds building up in the brushes too much?

What do all your other water tests say?
Have you gotten a new nitrite test to check and make sure it isn't a faulty reading?
Where in the water flow do you usually scoop your samples for testing? Is there any variation if you take the water sample from another point in the flow?

Hey tclynx,
thanks for reply.
The compressor have a diagram in which depth how much air was released.
Its a moving bed filter.
We check the water from the bottom of fishtank (filter inlet) and outlet still the same.

Testkit is correct , indoor in breeding and quarantine no nitrite readable.
Ph 6.8
Ammonia < 0.02
Phosphorus 0.5
Nitrate 80
Iron 0.25
Potassium 30

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Brushes will be cleaned every week.
Adding 20l/min oxygen into pond.
Oxygen 8mg/l

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PostPosted: Sep 18th, '15, 03:27 
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Each Kh unit represents around 17 mg of CaCO3 hardness. Having 50 to 150 mg of CaC03 hardness is acceptable. 100 to 150 would be better. The bacteria will use the CO2 and the carbonate hardness will fall along with the pH so you may have to keep watching it. If there isn't sufficient hardness it makes the pH swings greater and you risk a system crash because of lack of buffering as well. With AP it's a trade off because raising the alkalinity raises the pH out of the optimum range for running the system. Nate Storey has a video on YouTube about buffering and he runs with very little Carbonates - mostly adjusting pH using hydroxides.... but he's not having the troubles with filtration that you are.

I'm not sure this is going on but it's worth a look.

CoachChris seems to be having similar problems on his thread.


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PostPosted: Sep 18th, '15, 03:30 
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scotty435 wrote:
Each Kh unit represents around 17 mg of CaCO3 hardness. Having 50 to 150 mg of CaC03 hardness is acceptable. 100 to 150 would be better. The bacteria will use the CO2 and the carbonate hardness will fall along with the pH so you may have to keep watching it. If there isn't sufficient hardness it makes the pH swings greater and you risk a system crash because of lack of buffering as well. With AP it's a trade off because raising the alkalinity raises the pH out of the optimum range for running the system. Nate Storey has a video on YouTube about buffering and he runs with very little Carbonates - mostly adjusting pH using hydroxides.... but he's not having the troubles with filtration that you are.

I'm not sure this is going on but it's worth a look.

We have eggshell in the filter to prevent ph dropping.
System is open air and rainwater is low on minerals

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PostPosted: Sep 18th, '15, 07:23 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Yea probably worth checking your hardness
and Calcium hardness to know if that might be a problem.

Your Nitrates are on the high side (not sure what test kit you are using but I know I really can't tell the difference between 80 and 160 and who know how high it could actually be on the API test kit.) But anyway, if there is a low oxygen zone (like maybe in the brushes?) it could possibly be causing you some denitrification turning some of that nitrate back into nitrite.

Since you are feeding heavily and have a trace of Ammonia showing, it could simply be that you are pushing the feed level a bit hard. I haven't read closely enough about the entire system to really know but with high nitrate readings, you may well be feeding your fish more than your plants are using up. Or you have some other element that is limiting your plants so they are not able to use up the nitrates as efficiently.

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PostPosted: Sep 18th, '15, 14:55 
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TCLynx wrote:
you may well be feeding your fish more than your plants are using up.


+1

My thoughts as well.


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PostPosted: Sep 18th, '15, 14:59 
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Maybe but the biofilter should't care about that.
In my aquarium we'd 300mg/l nitrate.
I think the flowrate is too high.

38000l to 300m2 = 126l/m2/h
When i found your ratio 5000 to 1500m2 (growbed) = 3.4l/m2/h

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PostPosted: Sep 19th, '15, 02:55 
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Nitrite is sinking 0.6mg/l.
Changed growbed timer from 15/45 to 15/30

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PostPosted: Sep 20th, '15, 00:32 
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Cleaning the brushes only once per week could be allowing enough solids to build up to cause some low oxygen conditions, leading to the denitrification and the elevated nitrite. (This is why large aquaculture operations feeding heavily will remove solids from their settling tanks between 1-4 times per day. It also reduces the BOD in the system leaving more oxygen to go around for the desirable parts of the system.)

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PostPosted: Sep 20th, '15, 00:43 
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After 36h 15/30 nitrite drops to 0.4mg/l
So the pump hours increase at 2h so 36m3 to 48m3 per day.
Think the growbeds makes the different.

Jamie how do you prefilter your solids in gravity system ?

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