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 Post subject: Re: Humanure Composting
PostPosted: Jul 21st, '11, 11:57 
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Is there any system that uses a normal flushing toilet?

We are in Thailand, the locals working are horrified by the idea of using poo as fertilizer, let alone a dry toilets, saw dust and wheelie bins. That quit instantly if I tried to set this up.


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 Post subject: Re: Humanure Composting
PostPosted: Jul 21st, '11, 20:04 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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A water flush toilet will leave things way too wet and you would need a huge amount of dry carbon material to absorb the excess water which would probably mess with the nitrogen to carbon ratio. The whole point of composting the humanure is to avoid wasting precious drinking water in order to flush the waste "away".
The use of water as a transport mechanism just means that more of the waste manages to leach back into the water supply along with the excess water.
Composting happens to be a more effective way to deal with pathogens than water treatment but many people seem to think the western flush toilet is an improvement rather than the vehicle to pollute more of the world that it actually is.
I'm really kinda shocked that Asians are "horrified" by the idea of poo as fertilizer seeing as in much of Asia, night soil is still collected for use on fields UNcomposted. A sawdust toilet that doesn't smell would seem a huge improvement to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Humanure Composting
PostPosted: Jul 21st, '11, 22:38 
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TCL, thanks for the input, I understand the issues regarding composting and water, but it's not me who needs convincing.

I think 'night soil' is mainly a Chinese thing. Thailand is the garden of eden, plenty of water, fish vegies etc. People have never needed to be that resourceful.

There is no way a composting toilet would be acceptable to my staff, they won't even separate kitchen scraps.

Is there no way possible to have a flushing toilet that recycles?


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 Post subject: Re: Humanure Composting
PostPosted: Jul 22nd, '11, 03:33 
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You can look into some of the composting toilet systems but they are not the same as real humanure composting. They would usually be classified more as a mouldering toilet but some of them "look" more like a normal flush toilet and the composting part of the system is in an enclosure under the building.

So what is your reason for desiring a recycling toilet?

The biggest problem with a water flush toilet system is how do you "remove" the water from the process after it has served it's purpose as a transport medium? Once it has been used as a transport medium it then needs treatment itself along with the actual manure. I think most of the composting toilet systems manage this by using artificial heat to evaporate away most of the excess moisture. Will this serve your purposes better?

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 Post subject: Re: Humanure Composting
PostPosted: Jul 22nd, '11, 10:01 
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I'd like a recycling or composting toilet to utilize the resource.I've seen the ones described for sale on the net, the look expensive and complicated. Using artificial heat to remove the water doesn't appeal, however living in the tropics maybe natural heat could be used.

I know some ppl in Australia who have a worm based system and have a feeling this may be flushing.


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 Post subject: Re: Humanure Composting
PostPosted: Jul 22nd, '11, 10:43 
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The link below is to a worm composting system that flushes. Does the leaching from the bottom present dangers of contamination? One thing that surprises me is they have gray water running into the system.
http://www.omick.net/other_toilets/other_toilets.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Humanure Composting
PostPosted: Jul 22nd, '11, 18:38 
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There would be leaching of excess nutrients into the soil and probably quickly down below the reach of the plants. How dangerous this is would be hard to say since septic systems leach into the soil down below the reach of most plants too.

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 Post subject: Re: Humanure Composting
PostPosted: Sep 6th, '11, 04:39 
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Plachon wrote:
Is there no way possible to have a flushing toilet that recycles?


Actually there is! Long term composing toilets. They are in use and being installed in Europe. Some people actually use a very low water flush RV toilet which has a large ball valve petal to flush it. The water input is rain or gray water and the liquids are collected and mixed with water for farm use. TCL can attest to the use of aged urin.

Check 3 or 4 min into this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4XRDYnIf0U&feature=related The process is VERY much like out AP grow beds in that bacterial grow and convert the liquids into odorless fertilizer.

If designed to handle the volume then it can be 30 years between tank cleanings. This is good if you do not want to use the waste, but not so good if you want to build soil for use any time soon. I think this method offers the best solution for all those silly people that dont want to know their $#it stinks. There will always be objectionable people. I mean some people still will not eat food grown from fish poop. The really think I am going to die or get a disease, lol

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 Post subject: Re: Humanure Composting
PostPosted: Sep 6th, '11, 04:54 
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Or they somehow think the factory farmed food is "safer" and that eggs that arrive by truck some weeks after are somehow rendered safer than eggs that come directly from a chicken in the back yard.

But I guess they are just happier "not knowing" what is going to kill them then "knowing" what probably won't kill them.

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 Post subject: Re: Humanure Composting
PostPosted: Sep 6th, '11, 05:20 
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HAHA, true true. Ignorance is bliss. Besides if you are stupid you canbeleive things like raw milk are dangerous and you can grow up and get a job where you use special forces and swat to raid a dairy that has NEVER had one case of people sick. http://www.homesteadingmom.com/tag/swat-raids-dairy/

According to the LA Weekly, Stewart was released on $30,000 bail and told he could not sell unpasteurized dairy without a license.

Man I hope these guys never get "wind" of my composting toilet, :bootyshake:

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 Post subject: Re: Humanure Composting
PostPosted: Sep 6th, '11, 05:30 
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Provided you are not trying to get a building permit sans the health department stamp for the septic/sewer hook up, No worries until you try to sell the compost. Then you have to make sure it's pasteurized.

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 Post subject: Re: Humanure Composting
PostPosted: Sep 6th, '11, 19:12 
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I have been using a bucket toilet for a couple of years. I age the compost a year before using in the garden or orchard. I tried straining the liquids from the bucket for quicky plant nutrients but have abandoned that plan as unsanitary. I recently came across a site www.ecovita.net that sells a composting toilet and a toilet seat (model 501) that have urine diverters. I ordered the seat that will make an improvement to the bucket business. They also sell a book "Liquid Gold" about use of urine on plants. Before I moved my rabbits to a colony I used their urine and can attest to it boosting plant growth in dirt gardens.
The advantages of the diverting seat over a simple bucket are several. The solids when dry will stink less. The liquid will be uncontaminated and ready to age and use on plants. The solids wont require emptying as often. Less nitrogen will be lost to evaporation in the compost and go directly to the plants. Rather than adding the wet bucket in the scooped out pile and then covering with material, the needed water can be added from the top down. Thus wetting all the material without having a soggy layer.
Disadvantages are $140 for the seat and $13 for the book. The seat wont ship before Sept 27. The bucket box will require redisign and fabrication to include a urine catchment.


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 Post subject: Re: Humanure Composting
PostPosted: Sep 6th, '11, 21:25 
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Keep in mind that for good humanure composting, you need at least a certain % of the urine to mix with the other compost materials to get hot compost. Just Turds coated in sawdust doesn't quite cut it for hot composting.

Now I'm not saying don't separate the urine but remember to put about half of it into the compost pile when you empty the bucket.

For us, it is easy enough to pee in a bottle sometimes to save as fertilizer. (Yes even the women can use a funnel.)

So instead of spending all the extra money, you might think about just making a separate urine collecting urinal to reduce the amount of the wet stuff going into the bucket but not completely eliminating it.

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