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PostPosted: Dec 23rd, '09, 08:36 
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For a backgrounder read this article -- http://www.usatoday.com/weather/drought/2009-07-27-drycalifornia_N.htm Essentially one of the most prolific areas in the US is going fallow for lack of water to save a particular species of fish. Actually a guppy.

So I was wondering if AP could provide a win-win-win for everyone --

* Either farm run or a coop run AP facility is developed that can provides husbandry for the fish. This to assure continuation of the species and meet a regulatory trade. (A Nature Conservatory hallmark.)
* The enriched water is routed to various farms for use in commercial sized wicking beds.
* The gates are turned back on and water is only used for certain crops like olives, walnuts, dates, etc. that have specific requirements.
* A % of the fish is returned to the delta. The balance would be used for breeding and feed for fish meal.

Better this kind of arrangement than watching your farm dry up and lose it to the bank.


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PostPosted: Dec 23rd, '09, 10:33 
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Don't know about the routing the water John but I have successfully breed native Pygmy Perch (here in Western Australia) in my AP tanks so you could probably save the fish but not sure about the land

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PostPosted: Dec 24th, '09, 00:18 
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Thats the problem when arid land gets converted to green farmland by means of irrigation. I think the initial investment costs would be phenomenal on such a scale. But if you were to think big... mile long shallow growbeds for grain and such Grow beds made to perfect width for traditional harvesters or have special harvesters...Polyculture of aquatic species... Definitely thinking BIG! :shock: :cheers:

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PostPosted: Dec 24th, '09, 02:08 
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BRB,

Yes the scale of it would be huge. But we are talking a region that produces about a Trillion dollars of primary and secondary revenue streams in the economy. So a couple of billion to try and come up with an alternative would seem worth doing.


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PostPosted: Dec 24th, '09, 03:23 
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I agree, I wish I could send them some of our water as we are already the wettest December on record. I still like the giant aquaduct idea of sending as much as 25% of the Mississippi river's nutrient rich water over there instead of it causing the algea blooms killing fish in the gulf as the nutrients pour off of the continental shelf and doesn't help the estuaries anymore due to the levees. Probably would cost a lot less than our future health care :cheers:

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PostPosted: Dec 24th, '09, 03:39 
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BatonRouge Bill wrote:
Thats the problem when arid land gets converted to green farmland by means of irrigation. I think the initial investment costs would be phenomenal on such a scale. But if you were to think big... mile long shallow growbeds for grain and such Grow beds made to perfect width for traditional harvesters or have special harvesters...Polyculture of aquatic species... Definitely thinking BIG! :shock: :cheers:

BRB, one would think that this area was a desert turned green but the fact is quite the opposite- this area use to be a lake, in fact, the largest body of water this side of the Mississippi but through drainage, canals and water waste to drain the area for rich furtile farm land, which worked and had been phenomonally productive for decades. But now, this area is dependent on a dwindling snow pack from the Sierra Mountains, ground water that is not being sufficiently recharged (from an original 10 ft to over 200 in some areas and still dropping) and a massive irrigation canal that travels water from 100's of miles away, which the amount of water has recently been drastically reduced (for reasons already stated).

As far as produce goes, vegetables, herbs and some fruits (melons, tomatoes, strawberries), maybe small bushes/trees? (blueberries, raspberries, citrus??) could viably be massed produced through commercial AP systems but large trees (almonds, walnuts), mass production of fodder (hay, corn) and grain crops (wheat, rice, etc.) are another matter, at least at this time. Their value is not high enough to warant the expense of an AP system for these crops. They would have to be drain to waste with as little water wastage as possible and hopefully, maybe some water recapture at the end of the field.
Large trees are definitely out for AP but the biggest problem with the other crops is the scale that you would need to mass produce these to make it a viable enterprise. In the future, that may not be the case- massive famines caused extreme water shortages (currently only know in parts of Africa and a few other areas), extreme shortage of viable farm land, too much civil unrest or actual wars that makes farming impractable or other unforeseen events will increase the value of grain crops especially. Currently our biggest issue is not the lack of food but waste, logisitics and the cost to those who cannot afford to buy it.


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PostPosted: Dec 24th, '09, 07:06 
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Even if one is simply doing standard irrigation (almonds, etc) running the water though an aquaculture facility first would simply enrich the water for benefit of all. Of course, the aquaculture water needs to run 24/7/365 and irrigation is only needed about 6 months per year.

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PostPosted: Dec 24th, '09, 07:15 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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The only thing which will restore the valley ... is to stop drawing water.... and take out the levees, gates, dams etc... and restore the flow...

Anything else is like throwing snow at a bushfire...

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PostPosted: Dec 24th, '09, 07:28 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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We've got the same problem here.. with the Murray/Darling Basin...

It's taken about 50 years.. and numerous enquiries... to determine that the reason for the Basin and river systems drying up.... is due to the fact... that people are drwaing more water out of the system... than is going in... :roll:

Personally... I think the governement should authorise the air force to do a live bombing run along the entire system.... and take out every levee, dam and pump along the way... :wink:

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PostPosted: Dec 24th, '09, 07:30 
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Isn't this valley part of the fault line??
I suggest a salt water AP system:) Planning for the future :cheers: :geek: :shock:

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PostPosted: Dec 24th, '09, 07:38 
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"The only thing which will restore the valley ... is to stop drawing water.... and take out the levees, gates, dams etc... and restore the flow...
Anything else is like throwing snow at a bushfire..."


Take that reasoning far enough and even catching rainfall or paving the earth would not be allowed: it all distorts the "natural" cycles. Same for AP.

But we are part of nature, so whatever we do is "natural". Unless you consider us (being created by doG) to be supernatural.

The earth has incredible resiliency and has stood up to incredible stresses.......there is no way we puny humans can damage it.




(Does anyone else hear those cracking/popping sounds?)

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PostPosted: Dec 24th, '09, 08:02 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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hydrophilia wrote:
Take that reasoning far enough and even catching rainfall or paving the earth would not be allowed: it all distorts the "natural" cycles. Same for AP.

But we are part of nature, so whatever we do is "natural". Unless you consider us (being created by doG) to be supernatural.

The earth has incredible resiliency and has stood up to incredible stresses.......there is no way we puny humans can damage it.

Drawing down on ancient aquafers, diverting/daming flows... is not part of "natural cycles"... :roll:

The "natural" systems didn't remove more water (overtime) than the inflows...

As to "there is no way we puny humans can damage it".... well the evidence would seem to overwealmingly suggest otherwise... :wink:

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PostPosted: Dec 24th, '09, 08:04 
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In fact ,, several countries have sufficient potential infuence on the earth to decimate it in a few seconds:) Gotta LOVE nuclear weapons.

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PostPosted: Dec 24th, '09, 08:50 
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Well all I can say, you have to start somewhere right? Here you have AP that can be highly productive and frugal of water resources. So rather than the 100% that used to be used, its now down to 20% or less.


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PostPosted: Dec 24th, '09, 09:48 
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Amen.

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