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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '11, 15:18 
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yeah once they work the final "bugs" outta the system it should be the answer the world has been waiting for.


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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '11, 16:59 
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I think the moderators need to rename this post to "Quasi-science to run an ap system!" I've heard of using black soldier fly larvae to help close the loop, but giant common house flies are a whole other story.

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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '11, 19:02 
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SuperVeg wrote:
If you had excess solar/wind/hydro power to burn and you wanted to store the excess energy by pumping water into to a tank that was on higher ground (convert to potential energy) I wonder how big a tank and how high it would have to be to be useful.
And how much excess energy you would actually need.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station

I've done a tour around this place and it was really interesting. Basically a lake at the base of a mountain, and a lake at the top. During off peak times it pumps water up to the top, and then when required, releases it through turbines to the bottom lake. 1800MW!

Getting back on topic for this thread though, it uses 33% more energy to pump the water up the mountain than it gains from letting it flow down.


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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '11, 19:24 
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Curly wrote:
Getting back on topic for this thread though, it uses 33% more energy to pump the water up the mountain than it gains from letting it flow down.

So it was designed by a committee eh?... :lol:

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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '11, 19:28 
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Heh, either that or it obeys all the laws of thermodynamics like a good universal citizen. :)


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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '11, 19:32 
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A lot of places store cold in ice so they can build ice at night then use it for AC during the day. It save millions of dollars a year for large facilities. If power is cheaper at off peak times there are ways to save. Its even worth it to generate on-site with turbines then use the heat off the exhaust to run steam powered absorbers for AC for heavy load during peak electric costs. Those are some of the ways I know work but the capex is up there.


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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '11, 20:35 
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I had a Quick read thru the hydro system.. For what it has done and its main purpose of providing instant power.. it is a good system.. even thou it cost 33% more electricity to pump the water to a higher dam..

It much better than the other alternative.. ie Nuclear..



The idea of the making ice at night is also part of what is termed Co generation..
The building I was working in.. is Looking at changing its power system's..

From what I heard before I left was that they were very much Looking at producing their own electricity and even selling back to the power company's the excess electricity..

- Make ice for the AC during the day.. about 60,000lts of ice..

Juergen

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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '11, 20:37 
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SnowT wrote:
I had a Quick read thru the hydro system.. For what it has done and its main purpose of providing instant power.. it is a good system.. even thou it cost 33% more electricity to pump the water to a higher dam..

It much better than the other alternative.. ie Nuclear..


Problem is that it doesn't generate any net power. It simply stores it ready to use at short notice. Nuclear is still a pretty good option for baseload generation IMO.

Plus you need to find a mountain to hollow out, with a convenient lake at the top and bottom. Not many of those around...


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PostPosted: Nov 28th, '11, 21:43 
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Coal is good for base load if somewhat dirty. But they really don't like being ramped up and down to suit demand. The boiler's expand about 0.5m from cold to hot at Muja creating a lot of stress on joints and metal.

I can fully understand why they use the hydro dam that way, save a fortune in maintenance/repairs.


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PostPosted: Nov 29th, '11, 11:31 
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All based on supply and demand. Buy cheap, sell at higher price. Thats how the world goes round...

There are some inherently safe nuclear technologies such as LFTR (liquid flouride thorium reactor) and other molten salt reactors.

inherently safe design (safety by passive components and the strong negative temperature coefficient of reactivity)
using an abundant supply of thorium to breed uranium-233 fuel.
much cleaner: as a full recycle system, the discharge wastes from the reactor are predominately fission products, most of which have relatively short half lives compared to longer-lived actinide wastes. This can result in a significant reduction in the containment period in a geologic repository (300 years vs. tens of thousands of years)
can "burn" some problematic radioactive waste (with transuranic elements from traditional solid-fuel nuclear reactors)
possible even in small, even 2–8 MW(thermal) or 1–3 MW(electric). Submarine or aircraft size is possible
can react to load changes in less than 60 seconds (unlike "traditional" solid-fuel nuclear power plants)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_reactor

Its cool anyway :)

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PostPosted: Nov 29th, '11, 12:04 
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Yeah... in theory... the longest anyone has run one is about 1.5 years... and while the "Generation IV reactor designs is a molten salt-cooled, solid-fuel reactor; the initial reference design is 1000 MWe ... with a deployment target date of 2025"

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PostPosted: Nov 29th, '11, 15:41 
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Co generation is not all its hyped up to be. The local sugar mill set up a generator at the cost of many millions [thanks to the aussie tax payer] however, there was not enough energy in cane trash, even tho it hadnt been burnt before harvest, to pay for the operation. For a couple of years they were mixing tree chips, mainly camphor laurel, to get it going, but its shut down now...uneconomic.

Remember reading perhaps 20 years ago of a place that had two dams in sequence and generated hydro power of a day and then pumped the water back up at nite using cheap power.

There is a place in the middle east where a canyon is hundreds of meters below the sea level and using a pipeline, feed sea water to a hydro unit, regulated to keep pace with evaporation.

As for my AP, it will be powered by a couple of hampsters in a wheel


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PostPosted: Nov 29th, '11, 22:29 
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When I said co gen.. I was talking of them using gas to run a set of gas generator's.. The building only needs about 5mw to run the complete building..
they had at the time I was there 5 street feeds of about 1Mw each.. 3 to the lower Floor's.. Basement to lvl 24 and then 2 feeds for 25 - 58..

I was very interesting..

So the only issue with the co-gen plant is where to locate the generator's..

Juergen

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PostPosted: Nov 30th, '11, 00:42 
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For small scale energy production, I like this idea:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
Or:
http://www.cyclonepower.com/
I chose the top one because running a car on the gassifier is flashier than a generator, but there links from it to ALL of the designs. The cyclone power website has generators that run on any fuel, be it jet fuel or twigs. They also have a waste heat engine that looks promising. I don't believe in getting something for nothing, but I do believe in getting all you can from what you have!

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PostPosted: Nov 30th, '11, 00:50 
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