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PostPosted: Oct 22nd, '15, 16:28 
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pretty much the Tank will be place on top of the hill

NFT gravity feed greenhouses running 50m down the hill then it will collect into flood / drain grow beds

then I need return pump capable of pumping through 50m long pipe back to the tank placed 10m high

the tank size will either be 5k L or 10k L or maybe larger I am still looking for the highest tank I can for maximum volume / sqm

but I am not having much luck finding continuous use pumps with 10m head I can find ~5m head and +30m head pumps ...

of cause the 60m head pumps have lower volume

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Submersi ... 1718257800

is the closest thing I can find so far how ever unsure if this particular model is continuous but others like this are , problem being all the 1000w + continuous pumps have less flow because they are for 100+ m heads

I am also wanting to run multiple pumps for redundancy so less drama for when replacing failed pump


any idea's ?


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PostPosted: Oct 22nd, '15, 19:18 
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do you know how much water you want to flow?

or how big is your FT you will need to pump at least this volume every hour.

there are plenty of pumps of all sorts of capacities available.

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PostPosted: Oct 22nd, '15, 20:23 
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1000w + continuous pumps
wow that will be expensive to run 24/7! Why do you want the fish tank so high?
Two lessons I've learned as a newbie in operation for six months are: It's expensive to run pumps 24/7. Second, feed rate is proportional to poop rate.

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Specs: 2600 gallon (347.56cf) Masonry fish pond. 44cf GBs. 200 gal (26.7cf) ST. 15 gal (2cf) RFF. 50 gal (6.7cf) biofilter. Brook trout and Comets.


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PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '15, 00:56 
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Mostly because this land is really just a valley , the ground is quite useless hence why the decision for hydroponic growing

I have no real choice of the heights the tank is either at the bottom or up the top

I was not going to do aquaponics because of this reason but caved in
this will actually work out cheaper to run before I was going to run over 30x high pressure 100+ PSI pumps for areoponics ( how ever I am still planing on doing some aeroponic spraying to fill in missing nutrients )


for now I am just wanting to know what pumps you guys are using

bore pumps have been the only pumps I have found with continuous flow with low power usage ( below 500 watts )

and yes I know the 1 hr water change rule

Total flow is not that critical in the equation yet due to I will run multiple pumps to balance that out when i know my tank size :P but 5000L is the starting point
the goal is to eventually match whatever drain rate the tank's outlet is when doing gravity drain
how ever i am yet to calculate this


I am breaking the system up into 4 sections 2x sections per side of valley so around 800 sqm greenhouse space per section

just a rough sizing NFT will be at least 8* rows 1.5m wide 48m long 578 sqm
then dumping into flood drain that will be 3m wide 12m long 36 sqm( possibly cut up IBC's still deciding )
the sump I was planing on using for lettuces
this is excluding another few tanks that will be growing duckweed ect with guppies in it
which was going to be at least another 2* 3x4m ponds ( 5000L each ) I am excluding this in the equations because they will be self sustained but still in the loop

ps because I have been an aquarist for over 30 yrs I will be doing things differently and using under gravel filter system with a swirl pot plus still growing plants inside the tanks there will be a screen preventing fish demolishing them , but when the plant grows through it they can safely eat them


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PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '15, 01:51 
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Hi
This sounds like a job for my old mate ’Archimedes ‘ This screw type pump has been used for centuries to lift water. Google for local availability or I believe there are DIY plans on U tube.

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PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '15, 05:55 
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I'm using a couple of pumps alternately, if one fails the other keeps working as they are on different power supplies, both of which will pump to ~17m, but my head is ~5m. I'm also on the side of a valley. One draws about 0.75kW and the other 0.6kW, but they only currently run for 6 mins per hour and 12 mins per 2 hours respectively. I find that turning over fish tank volume (9500l) once per 4 to 5 hours is sufficient, but I do have a separae small pump to provide tank circulation 24/7.
All the details are in my 2nd larger system thread.

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PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '15, 06:56 
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Can you put your tank in the middle of the slope and pump up to some of your grow beds with one pump , and from the bottom to your fish tank with another .

Reduces your head to half and gives you the safety backup and will reduce your $$$ investment on set up cost but more important your running cost .

Big expensive to run pumps will wear you down , I know someone in that position .

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PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '15, 11:05 
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putting tanks in middle would involve leveling the ground , and would mean I have to pump water is both directions
plus I am trying to get out of any digging :P


I did some math 2m high tank with 1" drain should flow 10k L / hr :P
and I am planing on doing 2" which is like 12L / sec @ 2~3 PSI exit pressure and plausible 10 PSI at the last greenhouse

so I can defiantly drain it faster then 1 hr , just a matter of refilling it faster then it can drain

I was thinking I could use multiple pumps to pump into little ponds all the way up the top , but that leads to even more things that could go wrong plus the power consumption would be about that same as 1 pump any how and waters not really being cycled thoroughly

plus would mean I have to run power 50m up the hill being gravity fed from a top tank means i don't need to have power up the hill , just a long air hose


keep the idea's flowing

I do remember making a screw pump when I was like in yr 9 for Ag science
I also believe that's the tech bore pumps are using


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PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '15, 12:09 
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oh this is one of those sites with edit time outs :S

apparently http://www.clearpond.com.au/ has an Aquarius Universal 40,000 that will do 6000 l/hr at 10 metres, its maximum head height is 11m.
A pipe diameter of 76mm would need to be used for this flow rate.

Image
Now to find its price

*Edit* no way in hell I am paying $5k for that ...
http://www.majesticaquariums.com.au/oas ... 40000.html

and I thought $400 for a bore pump was pricey :P


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PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '15, 13:12 
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The saltwater version of the Davey XF171 that I'm using can be had for well under $400. The pump I'm using is 20 years old and has had a lot of use. It is very reliable, the only time it wouldn't run was when a colony of ants decided to make it their home, but it worked perfectly well once I'd cleaned out their nest. It should deliver about 10% more than the pump you mention above @10m head.

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PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '15, 13:33 
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Cheers

will start using "Transfer Pump" in my searches

was that 24/7 use ?

http://www.davey.com.au/media/custom/up ... 880768.pdf

so I guess that was 780 watt range

wounder why the XF92 uses more power @ 840w

personally I hate davey we have a heap of dead pumps here from them glad you got 20 yrs my last pump lasted 3

( we are on tank water )


yep definalty finding what I was looking for now using " Transfer pump"

decent head rates with high flow now to get the wattage down

http://www.scintex.com.au/products/cent ... ApU18P8HAQ

http://www.mansfieldpumps.com.au/pumps/ ... nsfer-pump

http://www.cheapapumps.com.au/transfer_pumps.html

Model: CM50 650watts 90LPM @ 12m head just need to find something keyed more for 10m head

http://www.theirrigationshop.com.au/sho ... ?prod=1208

Image
this actually might be a winner @ 400 watts

but I am color blind and hard for me to tell what pumps running from 15m to 200LPM
it seems to be more keyed for low head height high Flow

its not the 417 or 415 i can spot those ones
assuming the 413 is the bottom one

so its either the 416 or 414 both rated @ 370watts .. and i am drooling @ 125 @ 10m !!!

I am allowing for pipe resistence also 7m would be my minimum head

according to google earth altitude is 72m - 77m plus the height of tanks around 2-3m

*edit*

yep 20kw off grid system done with home made NiFe batteries
(recycling all the old fish tanks I no longer used )


Last edited by MasterCATZ on Oct 23rd, '15, 14:26, edited 5 times in total.

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PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '15, 14:05 
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No, not 20 years continuous use, I am pretty sure no pump would ever last that long! Intermittent use for up to a couple of hours at a time, and now 6 or 7 mins (depends on ST level) per hour.

10m static head height will always mean that the dynamic head is more due to friction in the pipe and around bends etc, so make sure you allow for a bit extra friction head on the published 10m head flow.


BTW, did you ever put together your off-grid system?

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Larger 2nd system: http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=24153
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PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '15, 14:35 
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http://www.cwc.com.au/downloads/Onga%20 ... randed.pdf

Ripper continuous rated :P

cheapest place

http://www.watertreatmentproducts.com.a ... ster-pump/
if the same thing ...


now my only concern is its thermal protection and how to tie into that so if pump turns of I can limit the gravity drain rate ( tho I will still have a backup pump on a float system anyhow )

nothing some sensors and arduino coding can not solve

So I think I found the pump's I needed under 400 watts is right what I was looking for as well

thanks heaps for that search term "Gunagulla" :P

"Centrifugal water transfer pump"
gave me exactly what I needed to find and I spent weeks looking for pumps before


*edit*
the actually reason I ended up switching back to Aquaponics was I just thought I have endless amount of food from work for free,
all the scrap meat can be fed to the fish = grow their own vegetation toss in the un-needed harvestible parts and bobs your uncle Free nutrients

and using rice husks in the NFT should give my the silicate that's missing from soil


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PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '15, 19:04 
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You've got me curious to see pictures of the landscape there

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Specs: 2600 gallon (347.56cf) Masonry fish pond. 44cf GBs. 200 gal (26.7cf) ST. 15 gal (2cf) RFF. 50 gal (6.7cf) biofilter. Brook trout and Comets.


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PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '15, 19:54 
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"all the scrap meat can be fed to the fish"

are you planning on growing piranha?

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