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 Post subject: Special seed?
PostPosted: Aug 10th, '16, 04:26 
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I am researching to begin my system asap. What type of seed do I need, Is it special seed or just basic seeds for any plant?


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 Post subject: Re: Special seed?
PostPosted: Aug 10th, '16, 10:04 
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Use regular seed or organic seed but avoid pesticide treated seeds for an AP system (just my 2 cents worth on the pesticides). Pelletized seed should be OK as well and I've used this for some things but it's usually more expensive.


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 Post subject: Re: Special seed?
PostPosted: Aug 10th, '16, 10:12 
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so the same seed I grow garden veggies will grow aquaponics veggies, I heard a guy spending 1.50$ a seed for hydraponic tomatoes. what about fish food can I use basic pond fish food or does it have to be aquaponics fish food? I have read thru a hundred forums so far but havn't found a direct answer to this. thanks for respnding so quickly


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 Post subject: Re: Special seed?
PostPosted: Aug 10th, '16, 10:58 
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Any seed is fine. I get non GMO/organic seeds. After all, thats part of the idea of AP IMO. Also, you want a complete pond fish feed like Purina Aquamax pond 4000.

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 Post subject: Re: Special seed?
PostPosted: Aug 10th, '16, 11:26 
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awesome, Thanks, I use non gmo in my garden, heirloom, I'm going to build a small greenhouse for my system maybe a 8x10 or 6x12, ibc system to start with. I like the chift pist system because I want max fish harvest. any sugestions? I don't know anything. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Special seed?
PostPosted: Aug 10th, '16, 12:06 
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feed = what type of fish.

fish food is the only external input to the system so you do have to use a better quality food.
For food (plate) fish where growth is desired then better quality pellet feed will give better results for both fish and plants.
There are various commercial aquaculture pellet feeds that you can buy in bulk.

Goldfish are a little bit harder because they generally don't need the feed levels of plate fish.
And they prefer lower protein food (around 30%). You can feed goldfish higher quality fish pellets and it helps.

Alternately you can provide additional inputs with things like seaweed extract and (when appropriate to stocking and nitrogen levels) some liquid fertilisers in low doses to offset what food inputs & fish do not provide.

Most specifically - avoid aquarium foods and mass packaged pet food type feeds. They basically aim to minimise fish waste production (which the AP runs on) and have lots of fillers and colour enhancers etc that don't provide much benefit. Particularly avoid the cheap SE Asian pet food brands.

You can also look at things like growing duckweed to supplement fish food.

These points are well discussed in many threads around this forum, though admittedly it does often tend to be a couple of posts in a bigger "I have issues" thread. Just need to get used to the search tools.

-----------------------------

seeds = basically any type [it is the plant not the seed]

you also have the option to start seeds out in a seed tray (eg. in colder areas or to keep veg cycling through a system for ongoing produce). They can then be transplanted into the media bed or DWC pots.

the issue will actually be the variety of plants you choose and how well suited the plant is to AP.

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Last edited by dlf_perth on Aug 10th, '16, 12:26, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Special seed?
PostPosted: Aug 10th, '16, 12:18 
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p.s. it does help people responding if you tell them what you are planning to use and how much space you have.
[which you have done in recent post - but more information you provide easier it is to give specific advice]

The basic information (KISS system) is contained in the IBCofAquaponics from the link at the top right of this page.
http://ibcofaquaponics.com/ there are also various menus with information and FAQ's etc.

you can also look at something like the FAO small system aquaponics PDF document.
http://www.fao.org/3/a-i4021e/index.html which does a few more alternate options with IBC's


but they may not suit what you want to do - if/as you browse the forum you will soon see that with a basic understanding of the theory behind AP the options are really pretty limitless...

eg. people use 55 Gal barrels, IBC totes, or do you plan on investing in proper aquaculture tubs for the fish.
even make their own with concrete, pond liners etc

Same with grow beds - people use many various containers, tubs from WalMart or build theirr own from wood/steel.

examples of all types around here. Similarly you mention greenhouse - there are lot of examples of setups with GH's as well. Best to invest some time browsing.

Best advise is not to start off being too ambitious - else you will probably never grow anything any time soon.
Start with something simple over a growing season and then plan your proper system after that.

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 Post subject: Re: Special seed?
PostPosted: Aug 10th, '16, 12:45 
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Thanks Darren. I will probly start with catfish, I'm in south ms. I'm doing all this as a trial to see how well it works for me. I'm building a simple 6' x 6' x 12' greenhouse with polyethelene for cover. I think I will begin with the 3 tote system 1 for FT, 1 for GB's and 1 to cut for sump tank and another GB. I think I have read all the IBC download and browsed here for 2 days. I'm still learning the search tools to search specific words in my questions.


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 Post subject: Re: Special seed?
PostPosted: Aug 10th, '16, 15:20 
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>> Thanks Darren. I will probably start with catfish, I'm in south ms. I'm doing all this as a trial to see how well it works for me. I'm building a simple 6' x 6' x 12' greenhouse with polyethelene for cover.

Leave that one to your stateside colleagues. Few here have gone with catfish in past

>> I think I will begin with the 3 tote system 1 for FT, 1 for GB's and 1 to cut for sump tank and another GB. I think I have read all the IBC download and browsed here for 2 days.

Try the FAO small aquaponics report - that shows a few IBC configurations (around page 60-70 from memory).

>> I'm still learning the search tools to search specific words in my questions.

yep that is a big problem, particularly given the widespread use of acronyms.
There is an acronym glossary and also some help for doing advanced searches on this site.
here - viewforum.php?f=4 (Advanced search 12th down list)
also how to post images etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Special seed?
PostPosted: Aug 11th, '16, 01:10 
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chris81 wrote:
awesome, Thanks, I use non gmo in my garden, heirloom, I'm going to build a small greenhouse for my system maybe a 8x10 or 6x12, ibc system to start with. I like the chift pist system because I want max fish harvest. any sugestions? I don't know anything. :)



Carefull with the goal of max fish harvest on a small system. More fish = more feed = more poo = more filtration (media bed, or dedicated filters/solids removal. To much poo in a small media bed and you'll find your self cleaning the media bed. Not a fun task. Stock what your media bed can handle.

There is a Rule of Thumbs somewhere here you should skim through if you havnt already.

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 Post subject: Re: Special seed?
PostPosted: Aug 11th, '16, 09:20 
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There is a Rule of Thumbs somewhere here you should skim through if you havnt already.

25L of *wet* media biofilter per fish, but other issues creep in as you stock higher (DO, circulation, excess solids etc). Also depends a bit on the media. This falls down when the fish are large as waste function of fish size (weight) so the rule of thumb is OK until the fish start getting to critical sizes.

A better rule of thumb is that 10-20 fish in an IBC is OK and pretty easy on most KISS systems.
20-30 requires some consideration, but generally OK as long as you have enough media beds or biofiltration.
30+ presents a much higher risk venture and really require you to know what you are doing.
many people tout these high stocking rates but sometimes (often) claims and reality collide.

square IBC and circular aquaculture tanks of the same size are completely different things.
you can stock more effectively in a 1000L circular tank than you can in an IBC.

as it is mass (Kg) to wet media volume then the actual less seen rule of thumb is
[TCLynx] "3 kg of fish per 100 liters of flood and drain media filled grow beds with 50-100 liters of fish tank"
This comes from discussion by various members some time ago:
here > viewtopic.php?f=14&t=27389
and the original TCLynx here > viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6646
(thread = Oft Repeated Rules of Thumb)

but again be a bit careful as IBC and circular tanks are completely different beasts.

** ALL values assume a properly designed, cycled and settled system **
** as they stress in those threads these are TOP END stocking levels at FINAL SIZE not 'recommended levels' **

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 Post subject: Re: Special seed?
PostPosted: Aug 11th, '16, 13:03 
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Do I need a collage degree to start?


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 Post subject: Re: Special seed?
PostPosted: Aug 11th, '16, 13:37 
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I can't find fish regulations per state , I can't find charts of fish groth per lb of feed, I can't find actual growth rate or grown size charts, am I not finding or looking in wrong places? where can I figure these things? best begginers guide says start 2.1 ratio gb to fish 6 gallons grow bed to lb offish, grown fish right?


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 Post subject: Re: Special seed?
PostPosted: Aug 11th, '16, 15:24 
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Hi Chris,

You don't need a college degree :) . There's a lot of information if you want to know more but it really doesn't take that much to have a successful system.

It was a bit difficult to find the information and I'm not certain which state agency regulates it but here's what I found.

This document lists some of the fish suppliers in your area and what is available to you - https://extension.msstate.edu/sites/default/files/publications/publications/p2525_0.pdf. The pond stocking recommendations aren't really that useful for AP so I'd disregard them.

One of the technical assistance people on this list should be able to tell you if you need some sort of permit and what types of fish are legal for you to stock (explain that you're doing AP) - http://www.mdwfp.com/fishing-boating/pond-assistance/pond-technical-assistance.aspx

This document lists prohibited species and other information on fish culture - http://www.mdac.ms.gov/wp-content/uploads/11-Guidelines-for-Aquaculture-Activities.pdf

Hope this helps :thumbright:


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 Post subject: Re: Special seed?
PostPosted: Aug 11th, '16, 19:45 
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Do I need a collage degree to start?

think of it more as an apprenticeship / traineeship.
most people become very proficient with the background theory within 12-18 months.

newbies doing too much research on complex systems is the biggest #1 issue.
It is why many people say to do a very simple IBC or tub setup as your first system and run it for 12 months.
you learn so much from that and the inevitable questions you will need to ask.
then it is very logical to figure out what you really need when you come to working out your Mark-II dream system.
You learn a lot in 6-12 months just setting a basic system up and playing.

you will soon be answering questions about pH levels, stocking levels and pump circulation volumes like a pro.
And conversations about ammonia-nitrites-nitrates, potassium and iron will be second nature.

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