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PostPosted: Aug 19th, '07, 09:57 
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While on the subject of fighting/violence/guns/political change etc... Non violent change is not only possible but has been used very successfully to overthrow British rule..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi

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PostPosted: Aug 19th, '07, 09:59 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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I expect you were watching the tele last night EB!
I saw the same thing!
..spare 5 minutes.

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PostPosted: Aug 19th, '07, 10:09 
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Yeah, couldn't last out the whole thing, so recorded the end and watched it this morning. Interesting stuff...

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PostPosted: Aug 19th, '07, 10:09 
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i wonder if the thousands of people gandhi led who were killed by the british would have said it was a non violent change?

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PostPosted: Aug 19th, '07, 10:14 
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when you know what you are fighting for, why would it matter what someone thinks you are labeled as?


Guess that's exactly what Osama Bin Laden and every suicide bomber thinks :wink:


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PostPosted: Aug 19th, '07, 10:22 
Just out of curiousity.... make a list of things/actions etc that you feel defines someone/group as a terrorist....

Then apply it against both history and current events and cross reference your lists against....

The Catholic Church

The French Revolution

The Boston Tea Party

The American Revolution

The Dutch East Indies Company

Both World Wars

The Russian Revolution

Korea and Vietnam

Iraq

Israel and Palestine

Cia and most other spy agencies

etc, etc


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PostPosted: Aug 19th, '07, 10:27 
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when i think of a terrorist i think of someone useing violence against civilians for political goals. that would cover alot of your list.

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PostPosted: Aug 19th, '07, 10:28 
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meancoyote wrote:
i wonder if the thousands of people gandhi led who were killed by the british would have said it was a non violent change?


Do you think less people would have been killed if they armed themselves and had violent protests? :shock: :?

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Guess that's exactly what Osama Bin Laden and every suicide bomber thinks Wink


Yep, it's just all about what side of the fence your sitting on, and who can make the loudest, most public noise about their cause, and their side of the situation.. It's all about brain washing and propaganda.... And lately, sensationalist media..

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PostPosted: Aug 19th, '07, 10:35 
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RupertofOZ wrote:
Just out of curiousity.... make a list of things/actions etc that you feel defines someone/group as a terrorist....




So does that make the US army/government one of the largest terrorist organizations in the world? :shock:

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PostPosted: Aug 19th, '07, 10:47 
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Mmm... interesting question.

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PostPosted: Aug 19th, '07, 11:02 
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earthbound wrote:
meancoyote wrote:
i wonder if the thousands of people gandhi led who were killed by the british would have said it was a non violent change?


Do you think less people would have been killed if they armed themselves and had violent protests? :shock: :?




stronger violence may have kept the british out in the first place. a few hundred dead british may have saved thousands of indians. then again it might not have....

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PostPosted: Aug 19th, '07, 11:04 
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earthbound wrote:
RupertofOZ wrote:
Just out of curiousity.... make a list of things/actions etc that you feel defines someone/group as a terrorist....




So does that make the US army/government one of the largest terrorist organizations in the world? :shock:


the us army would rather not kill civilians
(most solders would rather not kill anyone), a terrorist organization targets civilians.

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PostPosted: Aug 19th, '07, 11:35 
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the us army would rather not kill civilians


I find that hard to reconcile angainst the developement of weaponary like...

Naplam, nuclear weapons, anthrax, mustard gas, biological germ agents, intercontenental ballistic missles etc.....

Perhaps we should remember Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo, Vietnam and Baghdad.....

And no it's not just the US armed forces who have questions to answer...


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PostPosted: Aug 19th, '07, 11:39 
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But the US army/government gets around that by funding, supplying and training militia and other groups in many countries so that they don't actually have to get their hands dirty and do killing themselves. Unfortunately we don't hear a great deal about the amounts of civilians that get killed, Iraqi civilian death count from the war so far is somewhere between 69000 and 76000..

I think one of the main reasons extremist terrorist groups target civilians is because they have little choice. When you are facing an "enemy" that has billions of dollars, the worlds most sophisticated weaponry, the capability to wipe a country off the face of the world with the push of a button if they so choose. And world wide media control.. How can you fight against that when your a poorly funded group of renegades...

I liken an analogy of an over bearing, large professional wrestler, 6 foot 6, weighing 160kg all muscle, that has trained for years as a professional fighter, coming up against a dweeby nerdy guy thats 5 foot tall, skinny, with no idea.. Now if your the skinny dweeb and you've got a huge professional fighter standing over you, you've got little choice but to kick him in the nuts.. Many people will say thats unfair and below the belt, but does he have a choice???

These people are making bombs out of fertilizer, because it's all they've got, they are doing the only thing they can to be heard.. The "coalition" has lazer guided missiles, thousands of them, and planes, and warships, and tanks, etc etc etc.....

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that terrorism is right, remembering I'm a pacifist.. I just like to try and get the full picture of things from all sides, see things from everyones point of view..

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PostPosted: Aug 19th, '07, 11:58 
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RupertofOZ wrote:
Quote:
the us army would rather not kill civilians


I find that hard to reconcile angainst the developement of weaponary like...

Naplam, nuclear weapons, anthrax, mustard gas, biological germ agents, intercontenental ballistic missles etc.....

Perhaps we should remember Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo, Vietnam and Baghdad.....

And no it's not just the US armed forces who have questions to answer...


politicians are the people who make the choice to use those weapons, not solders. the flaw is, most solders will do as they are told.

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