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 Post subject: Re: Venting corner
PostPosted: Aug 5th, '07, 12:40 
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:| your government must care more for the people they serve, than my government. that is the only way i can understand why you would trust them in that way. one thing i will say, i can go to the va(government hospital) or a private doctor as i am a veteran with va benifits, and i have medical benifits from my job. the va care is crap, they just try and get you in and out asap. i dont go to the va. that is my government trying to run a hospital. i fear that it will someday be the only option for heathcare in my country as we move to a more socialist government.

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PostPosted: Aug 5th, '07, 12:48 
Please don't take this as a criticism meancoyote, but I've noticed several of your countryman make reference at times to your country "moving toward socialism"....

For most of us here in Australia, that would probably leaves us somewhat confused.....

Could you clarify what you and perhaps other Americans might call "socialism"


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PostPosted: Aug 5th, '07, 12:51 
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industry owned by the government. in this case the healthcare industry.

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PostPosted: Aug 5th, '07, 13:15 
Humm.. OK, if you think that Government shouldn't and/or doesn't have any responsibilty toward the "health" of a nation....

Would it not follow then that government has no responsibility to "educate" the populous..... should we "privatise" education and turn it over to industry??


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PostPosted: Aug 5th, '07, 13:19 
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Good info here about health systems around the world, info by the World health organisation..

http://www.photius.com/rankings/who_wor ... ranks.html

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PostPosted: Aug 5th, '07, 13:33 
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RupertofOZ wrote:
Humm.. OK, if you think that Government shouldn't and/or doesn't have any responsibilty toward the "health" of a nation....

Would it not follow then that government has no responsibility to "educate" the populous..... should we "privatise" education and turn it over to industry??


i feel the government should only ensure that laws are upheld, and that everybody gets heathcare and a education, but i dont think they should be the ones to run the hospitals and schools. its not hard to see that kids get a better education from a private school. public school is a joke, a total waste of tax money. if schools had to compete with each other for students, they would provide a better service or fail. give me the money spent on public school for my kids and let me pic their teacher, lazy teachers who just show up for a paycheck would be out of a job fast.

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PostPosted: Aug 5th, '07, 13:45 
How then (in both industries) do you acheive a measurable outcome that meets a "base" standard of care and education across the nation....

and how do you ensure a "fair" opportunity for everyone to avail themselves of such basic rights... and I do call them rights, not services

And to me that's the real point.... health and education are fundamental rights.... NOT services.....

If this were not to be the case then why have any form of government or structure at all.... why not just privatise "everything".... that includes provision of "law and order"... "homeland security".... "justice:... etc.....

IMHO .... because it just can't work for anything more than some of the people some of the time......... and they're the ones that can afford it :wink:

It's certainly easier to obtain "justice" if your names Paris Hilton or Nicole Ritchie.... or here in Australia Bert Newton's son or the former DPP prosecutor.....


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PostPosted: Aug 5th, '07, 13:51 
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i feel the justice system in the us is very flawed, it favors the rich. and it is run by the government. so just becuse the government runs something does not mean it will be fair.

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PostPosted: Aug 5th, '07, 14:02 
Indeed MC, I agree that many of the current government services both here, and it sounds like in the US as well are probably gravely inefficient and fundamentally flawed..... and probably do tilt in favour of those with higher incomes....

whether that be health, education, justice or whatever....

Perhaps I suggest, it is the very infusion of monetary influence that has in fact corrupted these very institutions and the same influences that have "lobbied" governments into neglecting their fundamental approach to their citizens and allowed the "corporatisation" of these services.

The withdrawl of goverments from these areas of responsibility has resulted in major shortcomings within these basic services..... because there are areas that just aren't "profitable" for industry to compete in....

Despite even impossing "garuantees of service" provisions.... these "unprofitable" areas are usually just quietly left to "fade" away to the point of complete ineffectiveness.... whilst "industry" milks the "cash cow" components or "tailors" the industry toward the profitable direction....

There's plenty of people in the plastic surgery industry that could attest to that.... :D


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PostPosted: Aug 5th, '07, 14:06 
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i feel the people need more control over the legal system, and civil justice should be provided to all people. there are too many laws, everthing is too technical. a jury should be able to understand the law without the need for a lawyer. there is right and wrong. simple. i agree that wellness and education are a right, as is freedom and justice. if i pay a private school to teach my kid, and they fail to do so, i can sue them, find another school, and tell others they are a bad school. with public school all i can do is tell people they are a bad school. some public schools in my county are better then others, but i can not pick the public school i want to send my kid to.

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PostPosted: Aug 5th, '07, 16:30 
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so you don't have a choice with the public schools? If you live in the school's "catchment" your child must attend that school (if going to public school)?

Here, some schools have catchment policies, where only children who live in the school's area may attend the school. Other schools will take kids from any where. I think it depends on the popularity of the school (newer schools sometimes "seem" better than older ones).

This doesn't worry us personally, as our son attends our closest school anyway. We believe that the school is a good little school (less than 90 students), that is close-knit and friendly. There is also the added cache for us that Alex and sister both attended the school, their grandfather also taught there.

So, back to the topic, are all the US public schools catchment controlled?

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PostPosted: Aug 5th, '07, 20:41 
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meancoyote wrote:
i feel the justice system in the us is very flawed, it favors the rich. and it is run by the government. so just becuse the government runs something does not mean it will be fair.


my father once told me " you dont get justice you just get Law"

mind you his ideas of justice are more than likely ileagle for most serrious crimes


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PostPosted: Aug 5th, '07, 23:40 
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Jaymie wrote:

So, back to the topic, are all the US public schools catchment controlled?


every state is differnt, and most every county in every state has their own rules. but here i can not pick the school or the teacher.

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PostPosted: Aug 5th, '07, 23:45 
So much for democracy eh.... sometimes makes me wonder how after the tumult of WWII and the fight against fascism we ended up surrendering the concepts of democracy and citizenship.


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PostPosted: Aug 6th, '07, 01:55 
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i would like to be able to use the my tax money to send my kid to the school of my choice, public or private.

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