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 Post subject: Re: Flu shots...?
PostPosted: May 4th, '13, 14:13 
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RupertofOZ wrote:
SuperD2 wrote:

Even when all the doses of a vaccine have been given, not everyone is protected against the disease.

Measles, mumps, rubella, tetanus, polio and Hib vaccines protect more than 95% of children who have completed the course. One dose of meningococcal C vaccine at 12 months protects over 90% of children. Three doses of whooping cough (pertussis) vaccine protects about 85% of children who have been immunised, and will reduce the severity of the disease in the other 15% if they do catch whooping cough.

The protection levels provided by vaccines differ. For example, if 100 children are vaccinated with MMR, 5-10 of the fully immunised children might still catch measles, mumps or rubella (although the disease will often be milder in immunised children). However, if you do not immunise 100 children with MMR vaccine, and the children are exposed to measles, most of them will catch the disease with a high risk of complications like lung infection (pneumonia) or inflammation of the brain (encephalitis).

Booster doses are needed because immunity decreases over time."

So with people like Paddy at the helm of SA Health trying to scare the masses into vaccination, with information contrary to the Government website .... Who Do You Believe !!

So.. how exactly is Paddy trying to "scare the masses into vaccination".... by presenting the facts about vaccination re percentage protection.... huh????

Or perhaps it's this bit that you find "scary"...

However, if you do not immunise 100 children with MMR vaccine, and the children are exposed to measles, most of them will catch the disease with a high risk of complications like lung infection (pneumonia) or inflammation of the brain (encephalitis).


Rupert

If you reread my initial post you will find that the initial Quote was from Paddy whereas the information you see above is from the FAQ on the Government run website Immunise Australia Program.

So the point I was trying to get across is there is misinformation on both sides of the fence.... It seems that Paddy & the Government have differing points of view when it comes to the protection immunisation provides to the masses. On one hand Paddy is quoted as saying "if children are vaccinated they cant get sick
with that illness" meanwhile on the government website you find the statistics above contradicting Paddies statement.


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 Post subject: Re: Flu shots...?
PostPosted: May 4th, '13, 14:20 
No... what they're saying... is for every 100 children (completely ) vaccinated... 10-15% might still get a level of disease....

Whereas... if 100 children are (completely) unvaccinated.... maybe 10-15% wont get a level of disease... but of those that do.... some will have a high risk of significant complications....


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 Post subject: Re: Flu shots...?
PostPosted: May 4th, '13, 15:33 
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RupertofOZ wrote:
SuperD2 wrote:
What I find extremely interesting is that the areas of low immunisation rates are in the well to do suburbs of the country..... Where the Educated & influential live.

I wonder how many of these "Educated and influential" people.... have vaccination shots... prior to their "overseas holidays".... :wink:

Or perhaps they forego their kids vaccinations... so that they can fund their holidays.... :lol:



Brilliant..... So they forego even the free vaccines, so that in the event they travel overseas they can stand by their antivax sentiment and save themselves a few hundred dollars ???

I am sure that was a big part of their decision making processes when they decided against vaccination, saving a few $ on an overseas trip :banghead:


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 Post subject: Re: Flu shots...?
PostPosted: May 4th, '13, 15:37 
:laughing3:

Bet they have their "yellow fever" and "malaria" shots though.... :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Flu shots...?
PostPosted: May 4th, '13, 15:48 
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I've repeated whooping cough and had hep vaccinations this year. Flu shot yearly.

People die from the flu..... young die with complications.


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 Post subject: Re: Flu shots...?
PostPosted: May 4th, '13, 16:42 
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weedyau wrote:
I've repeated whooping cough and had hep vaccinations this year. Flu shot yearly.

People die from the flu..... young die with complications.



My wife and I caught whooping cough last year. Trust me you do not want this, it feels like its forever and very debilitating.
We had been vaccinated years ago but no recent boosters.


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 Post subject: Re: Flu shots...?
PostPosted: May 4th, '13, 17:22 
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Maybe the question to be asked ishow many died from the diseases before the vaccination was available.
If 1500 children contract a disease from a vaccine, yet before the vaccine was available more than 1500 died from the disease the vaccine prevented over the same period, isn't the risk worth it?

For example, I once worked with someone who refused to wear a seatbelt in a car.
He was in an accident once and the fact he wasn't wearing the seatbelt saved his life because he was thrown out of the car before the drivers side slammed into a pole.

The facts he neglected to consider were:
1) he was drunk at the time
2) he was speeding
3) he was doing fact 2 because he was being chased by the cops and didn't want to stop due to fact 1.

Ignoring said facts, I mentioned that a seat belt may have killed him, however the number of people saved by wearing one vastly exceeded the number killed because of them.
However my work colleague refused to accept this statement.

Sometimes there are more facts that require consideration before making a judgement.
I would prefer a 1 in a million chance of my child contracting autism if I the other option us a 1 in 100,000 chance of them dying from something you can vaccinate against.


Posted on my phone, sorry for errors :)


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 Post subject: Re: Flu shots...?
PostPosted: May 4th, '13, 17:33 
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Sorry docscience but these are people my wife is friends with since before any of the kids where born so in this case she knows it is not the vaccinations.

One I can telly about is my son, he was diagnosed with autism a few years ago. His diagnosis should have been made when he was younger. The person doing the assessment was so taken by his improvement after first seeing him that he described him as normal. This is a kid that was only able to function at school with one on one teaching.

I was finally able to get a review after he was in high school and we moved him to public schooling. Big mistake but he was at least given the correct diagnosis at last. The new reviewer could not understand the reasoning behind the original diagnosis especially after looking at the old notes.

In my sons case it was his birth that caused his problems. I mention all this as a way of indicating that not all cases of autism are the same. As much as my son was miss-diagnosed to not be autistic I am sure it also goes the other way.

In fact this is just my opinion but I would suspect that it would be easier to get diagnosed with autism these days as autism has a very wide range of issues from mild to extreme.

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 Post subject: Re: Flu shots...?
PostPosted: May 4th, '13, 20:05 
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Johnny 5 no one is saying there are other causes....

That's true Werdna, but what if the numbers were the other way round. The big problem here is the reliability of the numbers, on both sides

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 Post subject: Re: Flu shots...?
PostPosted: May 4th, '13, 22:27 
I hear what people are saying with regard to the numbers being bandied around by both sides...

But you really just can't argue the effectiveness of vaccination campaigns for things like smallpox, yellow fever, tetanus, TB, polio and even (perhaps arguably)... rubella...

Other than in countries without vaccination programs... or low take up rates... mainly third world countries...

The existence of most... is near nil....


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 Post subject: Re: Flu shots...?
PostPosted: May 5th, '13, 03:46 
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Just imagine that everyone stops vaccinations. Just how long would it take for all those just about none existent diseases to show there heads once again.

Yes there are risks in every thing we do but sometime the risk of not doing something is far greater than the risk of doing it.

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 Post subject: Re: Flu shots...?
PostPosted: May 5th, '13, 09:56 
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RupertofOZ wrote:
I hear what people are saying with regard to the numbers being bandied around by both sides...

But you really just can't argue the effectiveness of vaccination campaigns for things like smallpox, yellow fever, tetanus, TB, polio and even (perhaps arguably)... rubella...

Other than in countries without vaccination programs... or low take up rates... mainly third world countries...

The existence of most... is near nil....


But if most healthy people don't get sick or at worst no serious side effects.... but of course that statement makes no sense to anyone who believes that vaccines are basically completely safe.

Do you know what usually happens in Australia/wherever if you give your baby shots and they get side effects/reactions ?
I have heard way to many accounts by people I know of bad reactions to vaccines (ongoing seizures etc) and the doctors saying "oh he/she must have already had that condition and the vaccines just set it off"

What a load of horse s&$t !

Vaccine injury reporting is at best extremely poorly managed. So ANY FACTS at all you get about vaccine injury are complete BS.

You can critically think about published "facts" all day, but I know what the term "facts" really means.

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 Post subject: Re: Flu shots...?
PostPosted: May 5th, '13, 10:54 
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werdna wrote:
Maybe the question to be asked ishow many died from the diseases before the vaccination was available.
If 1500 children contract a disease from a vaccine, yet before the vaccine was available more than 1500 died from the disease the vaccine prevented over the same period, isn't the risk worth it?

For example, I once worked with someone who refused to wear a seatbelt in a car.
He was in an accident once and the fact he wasn't wearing the seatbelt saved his life because he was thrown out of the car before the drivers side slammed into a pole.

The facts he neglected to consider were:
1) he was drunk at the time
2) he was speeding
3) he was doing fact 2 because he was being chased by the cops and didn't want to stop due to fact 1.

Ignoring said facts, I mentioned that a seat belt may have killed him, however the number of people saved by wearing one vastly exceeded the number killed because of them.
However my work colleague refused to accept this statement.

Sometimes there are more facts that require consideration before making a judgement.
I would prefer a 1 in a million chance of my child contracting autism if I the other option us a 1 in 100,000 chance of them dying from something you can vaccinate against.


Posted on my phone, sorry for errors :)


I reckon that sums this argument up pretty well..... :thumbright:

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 Post subject: Re: Flu shots...?
PostPosted: May 5th, '13, 11:18 
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did you know that a graph showing the incidence of colour tv ownership when they first came out virtually matched the rise in heart disease ergo colour tv's caused heart attacks.


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 Post subject: Re: Flu shots...?
PostPosted: May 5th, '13, 14:57 
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earthbound wrote:
I reckon that sums this argument up pretty well..... :thumbright:


Yes, if you ignore of course, the points that I brought up.

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