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 Post subject: Biased forum
PostPosted: Jan 21st, '16, 08:00 
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I received an email from a fairly new member yesterday and figured that I can't really respond directly because it's not me necessarily but rather all members and the opinions they have made public which he's referring to, so I figured I'd post some of the email here for comment...

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I'm finding your Forum fairly interesting...of note though it appears to have some intriguing biases. For instance, it appears that commercial entities that attempt to sell systems or have schools seem to be questioned.

I was curious why Friendly Aquaponics (Certified Organic, a long list of verified commercial success by students and clients) plus over 9 years of proven Journals, participation with universities that somehow they are on the Forum's poo-poo list. Furthermore, there appears to be a cheering section for start-up companies that have little more than 3 years of anything proven. Lastly, so far I haven't seen anyone that actually markets fish...just produce. Am I missing something. I contacted a commercial farm in Africa and they state that produce is their primary goal and the fish is just a bonus.

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 Post subject: Re: Biased forum
PostPosted: Jan 21st, '16, 08:33 
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Maybe he should read the name of the forum again BACKYARD AQUAPONICS.

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 Post subject: Re: Biased forum
PostPosted: Jan 21st, '16, 08:43 
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you being biased cc ;-) I've noticed there is too little talk of deep sea fishing on here too!

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 Post subject: Re: Biased forum
PostPosted: Jan 21st, '16, 09:12 
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I'm not sure who owns Friendly Aquaponics and having been around for the last 12+ ,months or so I have not seen anyone bag it out - in fact if not for this thread I'd still not know about them.

I had a look across their website - hardly unbiased though. Lots of 'everyone else is rubbish, we are awesome' language on just about every page - makes me weary when companies do that.

If they are so confident I don't think this is a good way to go - that said perhaps I'm reading more into this thread/website than I need to?

End of day - a lot of ppl have biased POV's no matter the subject - so why was this worthy of PMing earthbound I'll never know.


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 Post subject: Re: Biased forum
PostPosted: Jan 21st, '16, 09:46 
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Hmm, I'll take a crack at the fish vs plants part.

1. Plants have a much shorter turnaround from start to finish and sale.
2. If you want to do both you need to know something about diseases in both and not that many people do.
3. It doesn't take many fish to produce a lot of plants.
4. Some species of fish may not be suitable for more rigorous climates (or may be illegal) and the ones that are suitable, may not not have much of a market so it's less hassle, less waste, and less cost for feed to go with smaller numbers of a more durable species.
5. Sales of fish may be restricted in different ways that require additional expense (costs for a special processing facility for example).
6. Treating fish or plants in a combined system is more difficult than treating them separately especially if you have lots of each. Split systems are one answer to this - Growing totally separate and just using the fish waste as fertilizer is another.

There may be some other reasons I haven't thought of.

edit: The forum is owned by Backyard Aquaponics, they sell systems, advertising on the forum by another commercial entity wishing to do the same would be counter-intuitive (I'm a moderator but not paid by BYAP).


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 Post subject: Re: Biased forum
PostPosted: Jan 21st, '16, 11:09 
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BYAP sold out (shop & systems) to Cheidy's Aquaponics (pedantic I know )


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 Post subject: Re: Biased forum
PostPosted: Jan 21st, '16, 12:40 
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aww im so late to this. :(

i have to laugh at this! HA! (that felt great)

we have a cheering section for new startups?
i have only ever seen people who come here going "hi, im new to AP, im going to start a 50acre farm in a couple of weeks, what do i have to do?" be laughed at and berated (like tthey should be).


there are 2 reasons why we have a go at people who want to go commercial, and the courses who teach them.

- no experience first
- they want to setup a system that is great for arid farming in the middle of a country that gets daily rain.... (or setup in a 3rd world country with no way to power the system)



it all comes down to common sense and people who say stupid things get laughed at.


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 Post subject: Re: Biased forum
PostPosted: Jan 21st, '16, 12:46 
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btw, BYAP forum is still owned by joel.

and this email smacks of friendly farms feeling butthurt about something they read and then hoping joel will chastise us.


Last edited by Yavimaya on Jan 21st, '16, 13:23, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Biased forum
PostPosted: Jan 21st, '16, 12:55 
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Matthew wrote:
BYAP sold out (shop & systems) to Cheidy's Aquaponics (pedantic I know )


+1

I thought it would make more sense if I could relate the forum name to the original business name but it is now owned by Cheidy's Aquaponics :headbang: . Thanks Matthew.


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 Post subject: Re: Biased forum
PostPosted: Jan 21st, '16, 13:58 
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Hmmm.... For a newbie reading this I'm not sure I understand

Either it's a 'had to be there' moment or....???

I will always keep an open mind so let me bust out the popcorn.


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 Post subject: Re: Biased forum
PostPosted: Jan 21st, '16, 14:40 
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yah, i am not sure i subscribe to the grow plants and the fish dont go into the financial equation.. why not do hydroponics? And i dont mean that in a condescending way, use the right tools for the job you are trying to accomplish.

I am certain there are quite a few quiet little commercial aquaponic businesses out there thriving in their niche market and not vocal on forums or media but of the ones that are there is little credibility. maybe they even just do plants and use fish and fish food for nutrients..

regarding all of the teach you aquaponics classes. I cant help but wonder.. when bill gates learned to program Operating systems.. was the first thing he did was go out and start a class to teach everyone how to get rich writing dos and windows operating systems? FRAK NO! if aquaponics was so easy and so lucrative of a business these people would be stfu and in the corner making millions and laughing at you from the shadows.

Speaking from my personal perception only and my opinion only. the only people i *believe* (can not know for sure without seeing their books!) are with the experience and knowledge capable of building or advising a large scale commercial aquaponic system are ryan chatterson and paul van der werf. Oddly enough both seem to use fish as a significant revenue stream. I have read paul say that both plants and fish should be profitable. Not sure if ryan sells his tilapia and koi at a profit but they are obviously something he markets and sells, I would be curious to see if ryan believes the same.

oh and all those accolades about friendly... the 9 years of proven success of growing marajuana(illegal), fish and vegetables in a tropical paradise.. where you can grow fish and plants 12 months a year outdoors, no greenhouses, no extra cost for heating or lights... Lets try that in green bay wisconsin and see how proven that system is? Or maybe i am just ignorant of all the success stories. Enlighten me.



-edit and ps- i am just a backyard hobbyist and dont know wtf i am talking about so take everything i said with a grain of salt and as one id-10-ts opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Biased forum
PostPosted: Jan 21st, '16, 14:49 
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Yavimaya wrote:

there are 2 reasons why we have a go at people who want to go commercial, and the courses who teach them.


However, AP Consultants ... :laughing3:

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 Post subject: Re: Biased forum
PostPosted: Jan 21st, '16, 15:22 
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:lol: This is turning into a rough night :blackeye: :whistle:


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 Post subject: Re: Biased forum
PostPosted: Jan 21st, '16, 15:45 
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Gunagulla wrote:
Yavimaya wrote:

there are 2 reasons why we have a go at people who want to go commercial, and the courses who teach them.


However, AP Consultants ... :laughing3:



you cant knock the indian ones though, they were great fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Biased forum
PostPosted: Jan 21st, '16, 15:47 
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Did anyone wonder why this happened?
As far as I can see it was one comment by a forum member in response to a question by another member recently.
This should have been sorted out by PM. :)


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