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PostPosted: Aug 27th, '11, 01:19 
It seems that the discussions on the "aquaponics university" thread have morphed into a discussion about the pros and cons of an "aquaponic association".... (not a discussion on the proposed "international aquaponics association" that has come to light.. as suggested on another forum)

The discussion has coincided with the release of the "aquaponics association charter" to be discussed in the forthcoming conference in Orlando USA....

http://aquaponicsassociation.org/association-charter/

Here's the pdf of the "charter"...

http://aquaponicsassociation.org/wp-con ... .docx1.pdf

And the "branch" structure"...

http://aquaponicsassociation.org/wp-con ... anches.pdf

The revelation of the "charter" has resulted in some discussion on "aquaponicshq" where Gary has taken both myself, Joel, and BYAP to task for a supposed "conspiracy" of silence... even suggested that the issue is being "officially" ignored... and, for reasons unknown... seen fit to attack my "supposed" silence as some sort of cowardise, or conflict of interest...

http://www.aquaponicshq.com/forums/show ... #post36093

So to keep our old mate Gary happy.. and to prove, yet again, that he really doesn't know what he's talking about.. and is basically just a nasty, grumpy old man...

(P.S Gary.. I've actually been busy working since the "charter" was posted.. right up until midnight.. )


Let's see what members think...


I've posted the following on both Murray's forum, and Sylvia's community forum...


In all honesty, and I'll admit I haven't been following the discussion on Sylvia's community forum...

I wasn't aware that the intended "Aquaponics Association" was intended to be an International association... presuming it to be just a US association...

I'm not opposed to an "international" association as such, and the proposed "fees" don't concern me either....

And I do commend the people involved and the work they have put into the idea...

But... I do have reservations about some aspects of the proposed "charter"... and will be responding (via the website) to them... and proposing motions to amend some clauses, along with reasons... that I hope the inaugural "conference" will debate and vote on...

In a "nut shell".... any association must represent not only "aquaponics" as an idea... and this will be the role of the association officers....

But it must also reflect the members of the association, and act in their interests... and be driven as such... by the members.... not by the executive...

Any other structure could, and is judging by posts on various forums... leave open questions with regard to "vested interests", or possible "conflicts of interests"...

Any international association must be altruistic... and so must those serving as officiers within such an association...


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PostPosted: Aug 27th, '11, 02:09 
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My impressions (IMO FWIW): Reminds me too much of Gary and Murray's proposed club back in the day, but doesn't sound harmful from the documents. Sounds boring and harmless enough. What are the functions of such association structures - to present a unified front to press etc. about what AP is and what it does, stripped of some of the commercial interests that AP information has to it sometimes? How will I benefit as a member? If it doesn't include someone from BYAP then I won't be a member, as BYAP is the best AP forum in existence by far. Is it just something for people with too much time to fiddle with social dynamics and politics? Why do people join clubs in the 21st century - something to add to a resume? I was a member of the IEEE for years, mainly for the excellent tech publications. If this association produces some good written material that might be a good reason to join I guess...

Thinking about it some more, associations where people fly to Orlando to meet sounds very 20th century to me. At work we use Skype and the Internet to handle communcations around the world. A lot of the functions that clubs and professional associations performed back in the day are now handled by the web, online forums, social media, etc.

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PostPosted: Aug 27th, '11, 03:52 
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I have to say that it sounds a bit uneeded to me as well. Associations are born out of demand from consumer/demand from buyer. I see no demand for this. I have never had anyone ask if my produce was aquaponically certified. Ive never had the USDA mention the need for such certification when talking about my future plans and the future of aquaponics. I also don't see the experienced names I would want to see on that board. Feels like another money making op for someone.

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PostPosted: Aug 27th, '11, 05:14 
Rather than repost it all here... I posted the above on Sylvia's forum.. and received a reply back from her... to which I have responded...

http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/to ... e=activity

Sylvia confirms that the original intent was for a US association... but that the proposal "morphed" into an "international" association...

I've replied...

Quote:
Sadly Sylvia, I think some of the response you posted on your community forum ...particularly the point that at some time the proposed association "morphed" from a US association into an "international" proposal... and aspects of the charter, may raise concerns... rightly or wrongly.. as to the motivations of the principals... and an opportunity may be lost to form a "broad church" so to speak...



I'm uncertain as to the timing of when the proposal may have "morphed" into an international association... but there must have been a point at which that decision was made... and frankly, I think it should have immediately been presented to the worldwide aquaponics community... and input sort accordingly...



I'll have to check through the threads, and I'm happy to stand corrected... but to my knowledge... no such indication was posted on any of the aquaponics forums... most certainly not here in Australia... and like myself, those that may have been aware of the forthcomng conference and proposed association would undoubtably have presumed that it was a proposal for a US association only....



And in that, I feel that both yourself, and Murray have erred, and many potential members will feel slighted....



The sudden announcement of the charter... while it may have been slated for announcement and have occurred by pure coincidence at the time of some discussion of such matters on the Australian forums... followed by the principals immediatley posting "endorsements" on Murrays forum... will no doubt raise even more suspicion, particularly amongst those prone to conspiracy theories...



I'm aware of the past difficulties, perceived or actual... between both yourself and Murray and Joel at BYAP...



However the fact remains, that the BYAP forum is the oldest and largest forum worldwide, and has a membership that is truely international... to date, absolutely no posts, (other than that which I posted), have made any reference to the proposed "international" association.. or the charter...



Many members of the BYAP forum in particular, and no doubt others even on Murray's forum... will feel "slighted" that a proposal for an "international" aquaponics association was never revealed, and input sort.... and undoubtably many will see the relationship between yourself and Murray as being one of mutual self-promotion... and question both your motivations and intentions with regard to the formation of this association...



Regardless, I don't feel that everything is necessarily "lost"... and with a degree of transparency... and some amendments to the charter... many may come to embrace it...



I'm currently drafting a series of "motions", and accompanying reasons in support of such... that I'll post in a document format in this thread shortly...


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PostPosted: Aug 27th, '11, 08:46 
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I saw the post on murrys forum yesterday about the association. It really did come across as self promotion for their various websites.

Even the logo for the association is pretty much the same as the logo for Sylvia's website.

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PostPosted: Aug 27th, '11, 10:39 
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This was all tried a while back with the proposed development of GANRAD (for anyone who wants to read about it) viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2473&hilit=ganrad

My thoughts haven't changed much since back in 2007 the last time this sort of thing was attempted. I see it purely as a marketing exercise, a method of instant self imposed credibility, a way of controlling potential markets and not only markets, but also others within the industry. I'm not against the idea of industry representation, but really, this just isn't industry representation. One founding member with perhaps a couple of years experience in aquaponics, another with with less than that, one further person I can't find any information about on-line when searching for their name and "aquaponics", and Murray..

Well, well, the more I look into it the more I find... Sylvia has stated that I have banned discussion of the association on the BYAP forum. And also that I "should step forward rather than throw stones at the idea."

Has anyone here been told they can't discuss anything? Have I said one word on this subject to anyone? How could I step forward when I have known nothing, and how can I have thrown stones without uttering a word? This seems to be an interesting mix of cheap tabloid media and school yard politics. But as with tabloid media, it works to an extent doesn't it? It has created discussion, and as they say, any publicity is good publicity.

Just to put the record straight, no one has told me anything about the forming of this "association" before, I have not had any discussions with anyone about anything to do with it. I found it a while back on-line and said to Faye that I thought it was a marketing exercise and I've given it very little thought since then, and my opinions haven't changed.

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PostPosted: Aug 27th, '11, 10:59 
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A quick google search will show about a dozen AP associations. So if we need one can't we just use one of the many that are already there and free.

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PostPosted: Aug 27th, '11, 11:24 
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Dufflight wrote:
A quick google search will show about a dozen AP associations. So if we need one can't we just use one of the many that are already there and free.


How are you going to sell conference tickets :twisted:

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PostPosted: Aug 27th, '11, 13:26 
earthbound wrote:
Sylvia has stated that I have banned discussion of the association on the BYAP forum. And also that I "should step forward rather than throw stones at the idea."

Has anyone here been told they can't discuss anything? Have I said one word on this subject to anyone? How could I step forward when I have known nothing, and how can I have thrown stones without uttering a word? This seems to be an interesting mix of cheap tabloid media and school yard politics. But as with tabloid media, it works to an extent doesn't it? It has created discussion, and as they say, any publicity is good publicity.

Just to put the record straight, no one has told me anything about the forming of this "association" before, I have not had any discussions with anyone about anything to do with it. I found it a while back on-line and said to Faye that I thought it was a marketing exercise and I've given it very little thought since then, and my opinions haven't changed.

I think Sylvia was "reporting" Gary's daydream...

Glad you put it to rest though Joel.... seems Gary has got it wrong... again... :roll:

But that hasn't stopped him from still attacking me...

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Rupert functions as the junkyard dog for both BYAP and PAP.


Well coming from the primping poddle of pugnacity... that's a bit "ruff" Gary... :D


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PostPosted: Aug 27th, '11, 14:48 
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Rupert functions as the junkyard dog for both BYAP and PAP.




Bad Boy John........cause you got a brain, Back Bone, and some integrity your called a dog....Noice :evil: W a n k....ers

Scratching my head, I wonder WHY would I want to be apart of an association. This is getting worse than the bikies chapters :bootyshake: Even they have more cooth :geek:

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PostPosted: Aug 27th, '11, 14:54 
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RupertofOZ wrote:
earthbound wrote:
Glad you put it to rest though Joel.... seems Gary has got it wrong... again... :roll:

But that hasn't stopped him from still attacking me...

Quote:
Rupert functions as the junkyard dog for both BYAP and PAP.


Well coming from the primping poddle of pugnacity... that's a bit "ruff" Gary... :D



I'm not a fan of the bloke as it is but whenever he pops up with some nasty comments and criticism that makes me dislike him just a bit more. I suppose its just an old man sitting behind the world wide web with nothing much better to do that have digs at people.

As for the association good luck to murray and the rest I won't be joining I just don't see much reason for me too aquaponics is a hobby for me, well unless the association was free to join


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PostPosted: Aug 29th, '11, 17:33 
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PostPosted: Aug 29th, '11, 22:37 
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PostPosted: Aug 29th, '11, 22:39 
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PostPosted: Aug 29th, '11, 22:43 
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