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 Post subject: IBC Do It Yourself
PostPosted: May 12th, '10, 12:38 
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IBC D.I.Y.

After looking at a different Thread in the Forum and taking note of what a 'commercial supplier' of AP systems was offering and after some prompting from Oldute, I decided to apply a bit of design work to an IBC (Intermediate Bulk Container) and convert it into a viable FT/GB combination that would fulfill the criteria to serve as a workable system as well as being visually attractive.
Not that I'm saying anyone else's IBC system are unattractive, but I wanted something to be able to promote to people who are neater than me!

Rather than write everything down in this post I will prepare a PDF file of the base criteria for my design decisions, why I did certain cuts, patches and other items; as well as explaining the methodology to maintain the basic concept of a self-contained, single modular unit that can be adopted by anyone with a little time and no special construction skills.
I will also document the actual conversion of my IBC in photos, drawings, sketches etc, so you can follow what is happening.
In the mean time, here are some Computer Generated Images of what is intended.
(Hint on operation - the GB slides to the rear for access to the FT!!)
Attachment:
File comment: Finished Unit- GB has no media shown.
ibc-.jpg
ibc-.jpg [ 166.45 KiB | Viewed 7889 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Finished Unit
ibc-01.jpg
ibc-01.jpg [ 170.67 KiB | Viewed 7889 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: IBC cut framing and liner for FT
ibc-02.jpg
ibc-02.jpg [ 162.01 KiB | Viewed 7878 times ]


Cheers Ian King :D

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 Post subject: Re: IBC Do It Yourself
PostPosted: May 12th, '10, 15:53 
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Looking forward to the pdf file! :D


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 Post subject: Re: IBC Do It Yourself
PostPosted: May 12th, '10, 17:03 
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Hi Ian

Just happen to have a spare IBC, Looking forward to the pdf file.

Seeing you like to draw things up (superbly I might add) I have had some requests for details of my Mega Syphon, could you help out. :wave:

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 Post subject: Re: IBC Do It Yourself
PostPosted: May 13th, '10, 01:09 
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Hi Ian.

What are you covering the FT with?

Thanks,
Thefishingangler


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 Post subject: Re: IBC Do It Yourself
PostPosted: May 13th, '10, 08:03 
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thefishingangler wrote:
Hi Ian.

What are you covering the FT with?

Thanks,
Thefishingangler


Hi,
I use 75mm thick EPS core, colorbond steel faced "SolarSpan".
Attachment:
designaponics 006.jpg
designaponics 006.jpg [ 87.55 KiB | Viewed 7707 times ]

It is the tried and true Coolroom cladding used for many years (just a new bandwagon jumping "ECO" name!!!) produced by Bondor (Equi-panel etc) Comes in 1200mm wide x lengths up to 12 metres. I was just lucky to get some that was left over from a veranda roofing job.
If I didn't have that product, I would use 50mm EPS and then cover it with WP ply or other sheeting. Or, use a wrap of Air Cell insulation and clad it with WRC (Western Red Cedar) for looks, ease of working and insulation properties. The framing of the IBC lets you attach virtually any cladding to both insulate and UV protect the Liner.
I will be suggesting these things later in the PDF paper. You can also clad and insulate "Kit of Parts" systems such as Joel's or Murray's to great effect!

Cheers IanK

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 Post subject: Re: IBC Do It Yourself
PostPosted: May 13th, '10, 08:18 
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Hey Ian if you are going to use coolroom panel to insulate, why not just make the tank with the panel and seal it ?


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 Post subject: Re: IBC Do It Yourself
PostPosted: May 13th, '10, 08:35 
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Looks good - i've always thought that you could probably render an IBC to make it look good.

Is this stuff light? I seem to move my system every couple of years

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 Post subject: Re: IBC Do It Yourself
PostPosted: May 13th, '10, 08:52 
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Wow.

That is sharp.

Thanks for the info.

Thefishingangler


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 Post subject: Re: IBC Do It Yourself
PostPosted: May 13th, '10, 08:57 
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Hey Ian.

I guess you created your designs in Sketchup?

Can you post the files? :)

Your IBCs look oh so much nicer than mine and I would like to steal them :thumbleft:

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: IBC Do It Yourself
PostPosted: May 13th, '10, 09:37 
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Daryl wrote:
Hey Ian if you are going to use coolroom panel to insulate, why not just make the tank with the panel and seal it ?

Daryl,
I didn't trust myself or any sealant to be able to completely water proof the required 8 seams in the tank, especially over 1200mm each. The FT needs to be water tight, don't want leaks! I know of people who have made large "Eskies" from the panel, but they invariably leak, not that it really matters with an ice/drink container.
The extra pieces (corner angles) of trims would have to be ordered and made of Colorbond or Stainless and installed with Blnd "Sealed" rivets (Which are normally aluminium) which increases the cost and introduces unwanted material toxins etc.
The Colorbond sheeting, which is glue laminated each side to the EPS core material, is not 'held' through the total thickness of the panel (unless you want to use 100mm long bolts of course, even then the centres would need to be very close!) and will eventually pull away/deform/distort under the hydrostatic pressure of a 1200mm static head thus leading to failure and leaks. Especially if you try and move the tank at any stage. The Solarspan panel is not designed as a standalone 'structural' member and it would not perform as one, especially over those spans under hydraulic pressure.

Gemmel, the 75mm thick panel has a mass of about 10.94kg/sq.m. so it is not really lightweight. Plain EPS sheet is only 20% of the mass. But I'm leaving the ibc pallet base in tact and accessible so that a small pallet jack will easily move it around.

thefishingangler; All my drawing are done in AutoCAD 3D DWG format. I will be converting them to PDF documents so you can down load and use them after printing. Normally I do them to fit a ISO A1 sheet size for clarity of detail. They will all be dimensioned etc. so you can apply them practically.


Cheers IanK

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 Post subject: Re: IBC Do It Yourself
PostPosted: May 13th, '10, 09:50 
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Ian, how about heavy duty roller drawer runners under the GB so it can be rolled right back to allow full tank access? They are costly but you will find some that will hold the weight.

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 Post subject: Re: IBC Do It Yourself
PostPosted: May 13th, '10, 09:54 
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Thanks for the info Ian... We have quite a bit of 50mm cool room paneling left over from our office construction as well as flashings, and the pop rivets. Might even have close to enough material to make a similar one. In fact I think we even have some end capping left over as well... :)

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 Post subject: Re: IBC Do It Yourself
PostPosted: May 13th, '10, 10:42 
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Burnsy wrote:
Ian, how about heavy duty roller drawer runners under the GB so it can be rolled right back to allow full tank access? They are costly but you will find some that will hold the weight.

Burnsy,
I originally tried to incorporate Heavy Duty Drawer Runners so that I could roll back the GB all the way, but a couple of things didn't work out.
The overhanging mass of the GB cantilevering on the runners would have required an allowable load of about 150Kg each runner and for that size, they worked out pretty expensive, especially when a single extension runner would have to go 1200mm to clear the FT top.
If the GB was full and the FT was under capacity, the overturning moment of the GB at full extension would capsize the FT/GB unit. Not good!
Most Drawer runners are bottom of drawer fit - not really adaptable to the integrity of the GB liner.
The drain pipe from the auto siphon in the GB would have to be removed each time you wanted to open the top of the FT more than about half way.
The supply from the fish tank would be unsupported for a longer span, and I don't think it would go that far without 'ugly' supports?
I wanted the top of the FT accessible even when operating, so as not to interupt the system even just to check and see the Fish, so the GB could be full of water as well as media (I originally was going to hinge the GB for access! But that was a fool's errand!!)
From the Kit of Parts that Joel and Murray supply, the Fish Tank is only accessible for about half of the surface area when they have other Tanks/Lids etc on them, so I am assuming from that example (and anecdotally from my existing FT access) that about 500mm to 600mm clear for the width of the FT is enough for pump maintenance, fish feeding/health check/harvest and for testing/cleaning access etc.
I'll cover my base assumptions and design criteria when I get started on the PDF paper. Hang in there, it will happen
Got to remember, I have only done the thing on Computer at the moment, will start on actual construction this W/E.
Cheers IanK

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 Post subject: Re: IBC Do It Yourself
PostPosted: May 14th, '10, 13:19 
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Hi All,
First PDF installment for your reading pleasure! ( I hope!)

Just a primer to get you started.

I have also included a PDF of a flyer I wish to produce to explain basic AP to our visitors and other interested parties, who know nothing about AP, but would like to. Let me know what you think about both? I have borrowed a picture of Murrays' Balcony Kit and countryboy's Blue Barrel system from the forum to use at the moment for illustration purposes. Will ask for permissions before distribution.

Note: the forum does not allow PDF file extensions to be uploaded, so I have Zipped them and you will need PKZIP to unzip them back to PDF files for Adobe Reader to view. Free ZIP reader/decompressor from here. It is a trusted site and product.
http://www.pkware.com/index.php?option= ... e=3&dlp=ZR


Cheers IanK. :thumbright:


Attachments:
AP Handout.zip [1.56 MiB]
Downloaded 502 times
IBC Fish Tank and Grow Bed 01.zip [1.93 MiB]
Downloaded 569 times

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 Post subject: Re: IBC Do It Yourself
PostPosted: May 14th, '10, 16:55 
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Good info in the handout.

However if I may make a suggestion. I tried explaining AP to a couple of guys here at work, and they didn't get it. Until I drew the "cycle" up on the white board. By drawing a three sectioned circle to represent the water cycle, I put fish, small blobs (to represent the bacteria/growbed), and plants in each bit, it finally clicked. I really think that showing the relationship between all three major components is the key to describing AP to the uninitiated.

I wish I could pinch that handout for the use here, but unfortunately most of the info is wrong for the UK. Well, not wrong, just incorrect. We don't have things like Black Soldier Fly, Jade Perch, Sleepy Cod and a variety of other things. Guess I'll have to post up my own little flyer for people to use instead.

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