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PostPosted: Feb 20th, '08, 15:04 
It would seem that with your use of Potassium Bicarbonate, you have stumbled upon a “wonder” product Janet …..

Not only is it an effective buffering agent but also apparently an extremely useful treatment for powdery mildew and other fungal diseases….

And it’s “organically” certified…..



Experiments have shown that full-cream milk is successful against Powdery Mildew on zucchinis and grapevines. In fact, rose-growers Ross Roses in South Australia use full-cream milk successfully as a spray, up to once a week in a bad season.

Milk isn’t a preventative. It causes the fine hairs on the fungal spores to shrivel within hours of application.

Peter Crisp at the University of Adelaide, evaluated 34 alternative treatments for controlling powdery mildew.

The most successful treatments were full-cream milk, potassium bicarbonate and a canola oil-based product Synertrol Horti-oil. (Australian Horticulture, August 2005)

In 1996, GrowerTalks magazine reported that a potassium bicarbonate formulation had ‘proven effective in eliminating powdery mildew in roses, ornamentals, vegetables and fruit crops’. The product was called Ecocarb.

The product is also known as Eco-rose, an organic fungicide registered for use in Australia on grapes and roses only, but in New Zealand it is also registered for use against black spot on roses, dollar spot on turf, and powdery mildew in cucurbits, apples, strawberries and tomatoes (Organic Gardener, 2005).


A substantial amount of work has been done at University of Adelaide by Peter Crisp on the use of EcoCarb….

Quote:
Exciting news for gardeners on the disease control front with the official registration of Australia’s first organic fungicide.

Produced by Organic Crop Protectants, EcoCarb has been trialled extensively by the University of Adelaide, commercial fruit growers and wholesale production nurseries with great results.

EcoRose has recently been released as the home garden version of EcoCarb. It is exactly the same product, but comes in a smaller size for home garden use.

A broad spectrum fungicide that controls powdery mildew and black spot, the new registration applies for use of the product on grapes and roses, although it receives regulatory approval in the USA for a wide range of foliar diseases.

According to the manufacturers, EcoCarb and Eco-Rose will control and prevent leaf diseases through a combination of increased osmotic pressure, modification of leaf pH and the effects of specific bicarbonate ions and potassium imbalance on the leaf surface.

Application rates of 4gm per litre of water means a little will go a long way. Like conventional fungicides, this should be mixed with a wetting agent for better coverage and sprayed on susceptible plants every 7-10 days.



The cheapest source I could find (for you VB) was here … http://www.ecoorganicgarden.com.au/

If you select the “Home Gardeners” icon it leads you to … http://www.ecoorganicgarden.com.au/main.php

Select “products” and you’ll get to here … look for EcoRose … http://www.ecoorganicgarden.com.au/productlist.php

Sells for $18.70 / 500gm and is BFA organic approved ….

“Read more” details links to http://www.ecoorganicgarden.com.au/product.php?id=2

“MSDS” link http://www.ecoorganicgarden.com.au/uplo ... semsds.pdf


Eco Rose … from the manufacturers …

http://www.ocp.com.au/category23_1.htm

Tech data … http://www.ocp.com.au/webcontent19.htm

http://www.ocp.com.au/EcoroseLabel.pdf

And EcoCarb from the manufacturers …

http://www.ocp.com.au/category12_1.htm wrote:
EcoCarb is an ACO Registered Organic Fungicide



MSDS details here … http://www.ocp.com.au/webcontent16.htm


Another source for both products … http://www.greenharvest.com.au/pestcont ... _prod.html

Pricier for the 500gm EcoRose, but also lists the 1.2kg EcoCarb commercial version……

There is no difference between the two products


And here’s some really interesting reading on Pottasium and general human health….. Pottasium and Health

Which has some great info about potassium and health… deficiencies, arthritis etc…

And another endorsement of how our modern diets are essentially unhealthy …

Quote:
In the past potassium was more plentiful in the diet than salt, but gradually, the situation has been reversed. The widespread lack of potassium in modern diets is largely due to modern processing and high levels of salt added to most processed foods. Cooking and processing destroy potassium, and added salt further robs the body of vital potassium. This departure from traditional cooking of fresh homegrown fruit and vegetables is likely the cause of many health problems faced by modern society.


Interestingly it also says that …

Quote:
Potassium and sodium are antagonistic, which means that an imbalance of one will automatically cause an imbalance of the other; normally potassium should predominate inside the cell.


I’m wondering if this would apply generally in an AP system and our plants…..

i.e does the addition of salt for “ich” etc and the raising of sodium ions lead to a locking out of potassium uptake?

Would seem that potassium bicarbonate is a common component of many medical products…. Note though the possible “lethal” dosage warnings regarding human consumption on page three :D


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PostPosted: Feb 20th, '08, 16:01 
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Thanks Rupe - I came across this product when searching the net for a source of potassium, but dismissed it as being too expensive. I suspect it would be cheaper to buy cream of tartare as a potassium source than EcoCarb. My real interest would be in finding a cheaper source of potassium bicarbonate. I may check with my cousin who is a pharmacist.

Good post though :-)


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PostPosted: Feb 20th, '08, 16:05 
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EcoRose .... Sells for $18.70 / 500gm and is BFA organic approved ….


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Application rates of 4gm per litre of water means a little will go a long way.


How much cheaper do you want it :lol:


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PostPosted: Feb 20th, '08, 16:08 
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4 grams per litre adds up if you have 4000 litres - not that you would need to add at that rate as a potassium addition to the system. I guess that price is pretty good now I think about it :oops:. I wonder how much would need to be added a week. How much are you using Janet and how many litres of grow-bed do you have?


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PostPosted: Feb 20th, '08, 16:30 
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whats the difference between this and soluble potassium you can buy anywhere? the buffering?


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PostPosted: Feb 20th, '08, 16:56 
timmy wrote:
whats the difference between this and soluble potassium you can buy anywhere? the buffering?


"soluble pottassium" .... due you mean soluble "muriate of potash"... pottassium chloride or sulphate of potash ... pottassium sulphate?????

In terms of possible benefit to the plants by pottassium uptake.... probably not much Timmy... I haven't researched a comparison of the two.

In terms of buffering though they have diametrically opposing affects...

The "chloride" or the "sulphate" would dissociate into acidic ions (think weak hydrochloride or sulphuric acid) ... compounding the pH drift we're trying to correct....

Whereas the "carbonate" ions push the pH into the direction that we want to go.... similar to the effect from compounds like calcium carbonate, crushed shells etc.....

Just this has the additional benefit of alleviating possible potassium deficiencies as well ..... two for the price of one, so to speak.


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PostPosted: Feb 20th, '08, 17:03 
Oh... forgot to add the other benefits... as above....

It's "organic", safe and can be used to treat powdery mildew....

Four for the price of one .... :D :D :D :D


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PostPosted: Feb 20th, '08, 18:16 
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What wrong with plain Potassium Carbontate or the most common potash (carbonate of potash). We used to buy it in the bag full to buffer the spa.

They also use it in the lakes at golf courses to turn the water that milky colour... So people couldn't see their golf balls.


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PostPosted: Feb 20th, '08, 18:52 
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Cool - where do you get it Tim? Pool shop maybe :-) Now we are getting somewhere :-)


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PostPosted: Feb 20th, '08, 19:00 
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They also use it in the lakes at golf courses to turn the water that milky colour


Wonder if that means it's only semi-soluable and remains in suspension....

Remember it's also very alkaline


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PostPosted: Feb 20th, '08, 19:08 
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http://agrippina.bcs.deakin.edu.au/bcs_ ... bonate.pdf

Sounds a tad nasty. I might do some research to see if it is possible to buy cram of tartar in bulk quantities. I put some in my system a bit back - only a bit - but didn't notice any improvement. Will check it's pH on the weekend.


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PostPosted: Feb 20th, '08, 19:14 
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mmm...looks like cream of tartar is quite acidic.


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PostPosted: Feb 20th, '08, 19:28 
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Bugger it - when is somebody just going to test potash in their system. Used to use it in my dirt garden all the time (particularly before planting potatoes). I'd try it myself - but don't want to kill the fish :lol:. Will have to have a play and find out how much it takes to take the system into pH above what I'd like. A small addition each week may keep the pH up while providing the potassium I think I am lacking.

Love these one sided conversations.


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PostPosted: Feb 20th, '08, 19:34 
I'm going to start playing with my test system very soon VB.... it'll only have goldies in it.

Actually I'll do some tests without the goldies :D....

One of the things I'm hoping to do this weekend is to test the water draining from each growbed for pH to establish a baseline.....

I'll try and run a test with a single growbed (coco husks) to raise the tank pH.... then I'll try some potash for you.... and measure the pH change...

I'll flush the bed to return to the baseline pH....

Then I'll buy some Eco Rose and run a parallel test, using exactly the same concentrations of each and log the results.....

Bit pushed for time over the next month.... but it will happen.... maybe not overnight.... but it will happen.... :lol:


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bulk cream of tartar may be available from catering supply places

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