European aquaponic network

BatonRouge Bill

I would like to see photos of your system with the heat pump/ biomass system incorporated in it. I am a DIY'er and understand that not everyone is, so there is a place for comercial work. This is a clean forum as far as comercial advertizing is concerned so you may want to be careful sprinkling your link all over the forum. I am speaking only for myself so please don't think I'm piling on.

Even in the southern US, climate control in greenhouses can get expencive. I only have a 3/4 acre plot but have a lot of trees resulting in me having to burn a brush pile every two weeks. I have a chipper shredder which can make short work of limbs 3" and less. Would your biomass heater feed system work with that stuff? or would it have to be pelletized?

Hex

I guess anything commercial needs fast production to make it viable, tilapia probably fits the bill even though the climate makes it more expensive.
Welsh Dragon is using trout to address the climatic issues. If schools/colleges etc used trout instead of tilapia, the initial investment and running costs could make it easier to get the funding. How many trout based systems would equate to the cost of a tilapia?
From the promotion of AP point of view, if its cheaper there is likely to be more systems out there :wink:

Charlie Price

Hi everyone thanks for your posts

i have to just say one thing, its not a commercial site- that the link refers to its the domain-name-providers site and is simply saying that the domain name is registered. i apologised in a previous post (and do so again now) about making the link active, i wrote it more to demonstrate that we were taking the idea seriously, had bourght the domain name (under the not for profit organisation) and were applying for funding to get the site and the network up an running....

so i can assure you there is nothing sinister going on here.. please read previous posts, i'm trying to be open and transparent about my conceptual ideas and to simply use your help proofing some concepts.

anyway.... with regards to the last post about Welshdragon, i helped advise them at the outset of their system design, through the institute of Aquaculture (not being paid!) and tried to be an inpartial sounding board for their ideas..i hope they can testify to that (feel free to ask them..)

I put my hands up now :cheers:

in an attempt to be open from the start and finally put a stop to the conspiracy theories.....:
after BSc and MSc I started in integrated systems reserach in central Thailand focusing on ecotoxicology - looking at pesticides and their residues flowing through integrated farming systems, i developed an interest in integrated joined up approaches to farming (practical and theoretical), i was funded to work with the UVI systems and was then commisoned through my company (renewable energy consultancy ad supply-which i set up to fund the fifth year of my PhD thesis write up!). We designed a couple of systems for an incredible project - ABLE in yorkshire, sure on a commercial basis, although to be honest probably having worked for £0.40-£0.5/hr if all things considered and the months of development work, not to mention the personal investment.
I then took the system concept, into a not for profit framework where the systems are being provided at 8% over cost price (linked direct to manufacturers and below RRP) and the 8% being used for reserach inputs and support of the initiative (subsidised through governmental, corporate social responsibility grants and non governmental organisations) I believe in the concept whole heartedly, which is why i've spent so much time developing a truely feasible model for application nationally.

i dont want to mess you guys around, i'm here because i see huge value in your expertise, experiences, and support. We have the same goal just perhaps coming at it or leaving it from different tangents.

anyway, please dont misinterpret my intentions, i have played with low tech hydro, aqua and AP systems in my own backyard for about 12 years, never really publising it, just more for self gratification and a degree of intelectual masturabation.. but i do understand what its all about, my intentions are purely to adapt the system to fit with the obvious need for sustainable, low carbon food production, educatation about food, development of localised production with diverse and high value crops, food security and socio-economic development in general. - i'm not saying AP can solve the world's problems, but it fulfills a niche thats widening and is having increasing value and importance and we'd be crazy not to acknowlegde it.
I'm all for sharing ideas and concepts, which is why i am here, so please no one misinterpret my intentions..
i'm open to it all, ask me anything..

charlie

jessy

Charlie Price wrote:

degree of intelectual masturabation.. but i do understand what its all about, i'm open to it all, ask me anything..

charlie

well said..... :puke:

But it does interest me, in what ever you guys are up to over there :hippy2:

Hex

Hi Charlie
I guess at face value with the links and words like "supply" along with mega price tags in the posts, its quite easy to get the wrong end of the stick :wink:

I mentioned Welsh Dragon and his trout as one of your aims is getting AP adopted more widely. Trout would remove the heating requirement cost and no doubt promote wider adoption.
I guess as you helped advise WD, you are also open to using trout in UK based systems?

Charlie Price

yes completely they have their place, but the issue is the temperatures really, and now the undermine the potential for maximised plant growth,
sure trout are great, and we grown tonnes and tonnes here, but its more that the stocking densities, value added markets, temp regiemes and the robustness of tilapia, in my opinion make them the best option.
We looking at using haybale insulated fish housing structures for the bigger systems and there is know reason why one couldn't have outdoor trout tanks and aloow DWC's to be inside, anyway yes open to using any fish really, also see potential in koi and ornamentals, plus poly culturing shrimp possibly macrobrachium with the tilapia.

Hex

Hi Charlie,
You`ve certainly set yourself a good challenge :mrgreen:

I guess a certain amount of compromise will be necessary as the ideal situation looks quite difficult to achieve. Keeping the fish and plants in some sort of balance throughout the seasons may be the best approach but could affect the commercial viability aspect.

i`d say the limiting factor for the plants during the winter months will be the availability of light rather than the temperature. The triple wall polycarb glazing may compound things with 72% light transmittance.
If the fish are kept in full swing all year round, the plants may struggle to keep up in winter without supplimental lighting.
Perhaps a "Plan B" for nitrate removal during the midwinter months is a good idea, in case the plants can`t cope with the super active fish? I guess water changes through a heat exchanger to transfer the heat would work but then where do you put all the water? :wink:

Hopefully my comments are constructive, my apologies if they seem negative, they arent meant to be. I sincerely hope your venture is a success.

BatonRouge Bill

Hey Charlie, well if the temperature variation problems are solved (hoping to learn from you in this area) the lighting should be easy. Supplemental florescent lighting provides ultra violet for green leave and plant growth and incandescents provide the red to induce blossoms/fruiting. And the lighting can be on timers to trick day lengthening plants into fruiting and you could take advantage of higher prices for out of season fresh fruit and veggies. I also agree that if the cost of heating was manageable Tilapia seems to be the best fish based on density, feed costs, and growth etc. Looking forward to seeing your work in the Commercial Systems "Aquaponics in the UK" thread.

Hex wrote:

Hopefully my comments are constructive, my apologies if they seem negative, they arent meant to be. I sincerely hope your venture is a success.

Ditto

Outbackozzie

Charlie Price wrote:

anyway, please dont misinterpret my intentions, i have played with low tech hydro, aqua and AP systems in my own backyard for about 12 years, never really publising it.....

I'm all for sharing ideas and concepts, which is why i am here, so please no one misinterpret my intentions..
i'm open to it all, ask me anything..
charlie

I for one welcome the knowledge that you bring to the forum and look forward to more of your informative posts. :cheers:

Once the price of solar panels come down, I would love to use reverse cycle heating/cooling to run Trout or Silvers year round.

Charlie Price

thanks guys,

andrew-l

Blimey - Step away from the forums for a week and all hell breaks loose!

I'm still here Charlie, and still in the early planning stages (still in the wrong country at the moment!) Will be very interested to see what your proposing and how it's going when we're back in the UK. Quite happy to setup a demo site in the Manchester area too.

Much more interested in the food supply side of things than ornamental fish, and have been looking at unheated trout systems as the best low-energy self-sufficient home system.

Nico

How could I have missed this thread???

I’ve been doing quite some research on setting up a commercial Tilapia farm, but the numbers don’t look too good. No matter where I start looking for potential buyers of the fish, somehow I always end up at the same place. It looks like there’s one company that has total monopoly when it comes to Tilapia sales in the Netherlands. The money they pay for the fish is just ridiculous, making farming these fish not very viable, unless you can supply at least 300 tons of fish a year (which would require a 3 million Euro investment to get things set up)

The whole food supply chain is totally messed up by big companies making heaps of money and leaving the farmers struggling. You see this everywhere, pigs, cows, milk, etc. The low profit is partially caused by the high cost of transporting the live fish. Things would probably change if you would sell the fish already dead, but that would involve a whole other set of laws and regulations to be taken into account.

I still didn’t give up though (we bought the 6600sq.meter greenhouse AFTER finding out about how unviable farming Tilapia is)

Frank: I’ve been looking for the bugger who registered all the Aquaponics domains, finally found you! I thought they had been registered by one of those pesky domain hijackers that try to resell $8 domain names for ridiculous amounts. Glad to find out you are not! Why not develop something on those domains? Let me know if you need help on that, I also have space left on my server to host the site.

Charlie Price

Hi andrew and nico,
likewise away for a week, and just seen your posts,
I've been helping to install the pipework for these two Able project systems in Wakefield (incidently andrew i was staying with a mate in Manchester!) anyway i have loads of pics but will post over the weekend on a new clear thread (as a couple of people suggested i did this)
Anyway the systems are going full steam ahead and the project is such a joy to work within. It basically draws on the skills of people doing community service, 'high maintenance students' and youth offenders and provides a fantastic framework form people to work together on interesting projects. The Social inplications and results of the project alone have been wide reaching and substantial and to be honest its been a privilige to work with the guys there, build these systems. Sure for some there's no interest, but for others its been quite profound. Anyway i'm going off on tangents...

so yes a great week of hands on building and seeing the systems that have been on CAD drawings for 8 months, turn into reality.
I also had a meeting with a very interesting lady from the Sussex area with a backgorund in Architecture and eductation and whos asked for my help in setting up a multi faceted system with trout, koi, poly cultures, duck and using rooftops, garden, and terraces for diverse crop production, the aim is for her to produce food for the family and for sale onsite as well as using the place to run workshops etc. Its a great idea, the ideal location and has loads of potential so we'll keep you posted on developments there and get a seperate thread going once its at that stage.

Andrew, great to hear you'll be coming back and joining the movement in the UK, i also like the idea of trout in some applications/scales, and we could certainly help provide you with fish (my institute owns and runs a famous brown trout hatchery - Howietoun dating back to Victorian times and which stocked the infamous loch leven fish that survive today in the himalayas - maybe not such a good thing

anyway, the facility still runs today and provides high quality fish for restocking purposes.
I'm also more interested in fish production for food, and the tiliapia systems i've designed have that very much in mind, however in some instances ornamentals can fit the scenario/requirements.
i look forward to chatting more about this with you and when you get back, give me a buzz and i'll show you round the Wakefield systems as they'd be pretty close to you.

Nico, hi, agree about some monopolies on tilapia production, but i reakon we should leave their market well alone, AP cant compete with 100-300 ton facilities as their plumbed straight into the high volume, low value wholesale markets. My experience would be to look at supplying a relatively small number of localised customers (resturants, delis, greengrouncers) with regular, diverse supplies of crops, higher value to the end consumer and scale up geograhically with multiple 'smaller' sites rather than spatially on a larger single site, also live fish market is strong in asian and african communities, i would have thourght some niche markets could be established for consistent supply of live/fresh fish to the indonesian communities in the netherlands?
BUt would be keen to assist with ideas if it would be of help, i did some PhD reserach at Alterra Green World Research in Wageningen a couple of years back and still have some links there.

ok well its late here, i'll get those pics up over the weekend

cheers everyone

charlie

hygicell

Charlie Price wrote:

my institute owns and runs a famous brown trout hatchery - Howietoun dating back to Victorian times and which stocked the infamous loch leven fish that survive today in the himalayas - maybe not such a good thing

anyway, the facility still runs today and provides high quality fish for restocking purposes.

I would be interested in some trout (and other) fry, Charlie
maybe start a new thread "Hatcheries International" in the forum "International" to post contact details?

we should also start discussing the setting up of Aquaponics websites and possible collaboration on that matter

greetings

Frank

Charlie Price

good news folks, i was awarded a start up grant for the Aquaponics social enterprise, (not for profit support network) from the Millenium Awards. So i'll keep you posted on developments and update you when the site is operational

in the meantime, the thread for these systems in Wakefield is:
http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4217

hope you find it interesting, the first batch of pics are on there now.

best wishes,
charlie

Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics