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PostPosted: Nov 16th, '06, 19:02 
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Ed Q has ethics?

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PostPosted: Nov 16th, '06, 19:04 
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LOL...


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PostPosted: Nov 16th, '06, 20:57 
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Run it as an independant, outside school hours (or outside the school curriculum) project - that way the school is simply a venue

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PostPosted: Nov 16th, '06, 21:02 
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My larger system with the Barra is part of my plant nursery which is run on campus by myself and kids are invited to get involved, as are parents and staff... The fish are currently a source of plant food and a relaxing something to watch - but that WILL change in the future...
The Ed Q group are referring to animals (pets) kept in captivity within the classroom, or for classroom / lesson use - so I am attempting to create and use a loophole here ... Another loophole is to use yabby - they are inverterbrates, as well as freshwater prawn - both of which taste good with a little garlic on the barbie - stocking densities are just different as you seem to be limited by floorspace (but there are a few ways around that too)

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PostPosted: Nov 17th, '06, 11:38 
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I like the idea of red claw. And to be limited by floorspace is a good thing because we can get the Engineering tech class involved to work out how to get more produce into the same amount of space while yet making sure all requirements are met including sunlight for all organisms.

The water board here apparently can provide lots of support and they also have barra fingerlings...

Redclaw is 100kms away... but I love Home Ecconomics... :wink:


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PostPosted: Nov 17th, '06, 11:56 
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MCPHRO wrote:
I like the idea of red claw. And to be limited by floorspace is a good thing because we can get the Engineering tech class involved to work out how to get more produce into the same amount of space while yet making sure all requirements are met including sunlight for all organisms.


I'm thinking... ferris wheel :twisted:
haha, sorry...

Seriously tho... Can't you use ornamental fish if there's an ethical issue regarding eating them?


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PostPosted: Nov 17th, '06, 14:13 
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Roy, that last comment might be lost on you..............but you'll know the thread that it refers to when you get to it............... LOL sunrise girl, poor buggers we just dont give them a break, do we?

SG, from what i've read in previous posts the "care" required to be given to a gold fish in a school setting borders on lunacy :shock: i think someone even said that you have to take it to the vet if its sick.........

Muzza, i hope you never had any plans on becoming a teacher.......... ;)

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PostPosted: Nov 17th, '06, 16:54 
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Seriously tho... Can't you use ornamental fish if there's an ethical issue regarding eating them?

Any verterbrate is 'protected' under a whole heap of conditions etc... even ornamentals :?

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PostPosted: Nov 17th, '06, 20:29 
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U have no idea regarding the amount of paperwprk you have to fill in regards keeping one goldie at school!

Keeping several hundred at school .. a nightmare. :cry:

If a fish gets sick, you have to get professional help .. ie. a Vet!

You are not allowed to knock it on the head .. you must slowly freeze the poor little bugger to death! (Apparantly this is the politically correct and ethical way to do it!) .. Imagine doing the same to a mouse or rabbit!

Anyway I have got my crash trolley ready! I have learned how to intubate a fish and give them a blood transusion and MRI scan.

"Clear! " Zap !

I would never hurt a fish, but how the hell are teachers expected to do the right thing and provide good learning experiences with all this beauracratic nonsense going on?

Doh!

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PostPosted: Nov 17th, '06, 20:34 
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calm bluie oceans Johnnie, calm blue oceans.

Tell me you don't dream of actually meeting with the person that issued that edict?

I'll look at them in the eyes and ask WTF is going on in that thing you're passing off as a brain?! :shock:

I know we're all freaks, but to picture someone sitting at their computer typing out that guide line some how concerns me. :)

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PostPosted: Nov 18th, '06, 05:43 
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Haha...

Nah, talked to the SOSE HOD yesterday because it would be great for their marine aquatics groups, and we came up with a solution...

We get Barra fingerlings off the waterboard, they give us assistance with the looking after them, (I might even ask them for the food.. hmmmm), and then when they are bigger - 1 Kg, we give them back to the waterboard...

So really a loan. I have yet to put it too them next week, but it will be interesting to see what they have to say. But id make 2 other points:

1. Would it not be so much better to be able to use Barra for Fish disections and Home ecconomics classes... Im sure they would love that!

2. (Im just trying to imagine forcing a Rabbit(live and kicking) into a freezer while forcing its head down with a broom handle so the bloody thing doesnt get out!) - Yes there is lots of paperwork but also paranoia concerning vertibrtaes. I think I might contact the ethics board themselves and ask them. Maybe with certain safeguard its not a problem. Im sure if it was the science dept, they would have to work out all the ethics details, but ill tell you this...

One of the sport options here at school is fishing... Now what do you think would happen if one of the "boys" caught a fish... I wonder if the same ethics rules comes into play, or, because its fishing that is overlooked...

Something to pose to the powers that be next week :wink:


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PostPosted: Nov 18th, '06, 10:02 
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Maybe do a little reading on how to "humanely" kill them, and present it alond with your requests, atleast that way you'll impress them with having already put into place a proceedure, and they won't have visions of your kids lopping off their heads with rusty forks :)

I think placing the fish in a tub of ice water is acceptible, but check it out.

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PostPosted: Nov 18th, '06, 14:03 
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Well, you know the best way for red claw huh - Straight into a boiling pot :twisted:

As for the Barra - We could give them back to the waterboard for release into awonga dam. They feed their fish by hand too. I would love to see the possibliity of using fish for disections or Home Ecc classes. But I can settle for release. Wouldnt it be great if our kids could help the waterboard release the fish when they do it. That way - we could also push that side of things with the marine studies group.


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PostPosted: Nov 18th, '06, 14:50 
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Got some more prices today and some news...

Gladstone State High school has red claw... and maybe aquaponics....???

But even better. The teacher who set it up there is coming to our school for 6 months next year?

So all in all, next year is shaping up to be very good :lol:

Prices:
Aquapumps:
250 lt/h - $12.99
750 lt/h - $12.99 -
950 lt/h - $24.99 - Dont know why its cheaper?
3300lt/h - $100.00

An interesting question: How many litres needs to be drained and are the growbeds fed continously so the roots are permemently wet, or is it a case of flood and drain technique. (I know the flood is used, but not sure of the best practice for running the nutrient rich water through the growbeds.

Tubleweed worm farm (not sure whats in it) - $92.00

400Ltr compost bin (fish tank) $ 75.00

It didnt seem to have any holes but is there a problem with black plastic?

Black poly tubing $7.16 for 20m * 19mm tubing... Same question as above.


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PostPosted: Nov 18th, '06, 20:55 
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Folks use many different designs for supplying the water to the beds. Some wet the grow bed media, and then drain as much water out as possible, either continuously or in cycles. In others, the roots are continuously wet. My first setup continuously dribbled water over the surface of the grow bed, and continuously drained it away from the bottom. There were a few centimeters of water that remained in the grow bed at all times. The disadvantage is that I got drier areas in the bed. My new system is designed to flood the grow bed nearly to the top, and then drains as much water as possible. Some folks float styrofoam with holes on the surface of the water. Plants are placed in the holes.

--Just added to the confusion, didn't I???

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