Success and Dipel?

indi

Hello, back with another newbie question which I fear is going to lead to me taking a product back to the Hardware store from whence it came!

I went to buy some Dipel, knowing that this is okay for AP systems. However I live in Tom Price and they decide that some products (the organic ones it seems) do not sell so well and therefore do not stock them, so the gentleman insisted that Yates Success is just as good and because it says 'Naturalyte* Insect Control' that means it is organic. So I bought it, but am ready to take it back at the speed of light if it ends up that this is no good for AP.

It says it contains "Spinosad" (which sounds bad to me) derived from naturally occuring soil bacteria.

Is this okay to use or should I take it back?

Cheers

Indi

RupertofOZ

Don't use it...take it back immediately...
not good for fish, plants or bees... :shock:

From the MSDS... http://www.greenharvest.com.au/pestcont ... uccess.pdf

Quote:

Ecotoxicity

Avoid contaminating waterways and fishponds. Do not spray over bees or plants in
flower. Do not allow spray to drift onto aquatic environments, other crops or desirable
plants or outside the target area. For Spinosad (1):

Persistence/degradability andmobility
The material has low potential for bioaccumulation.

Aquatic toxicity: Harmful to aquatic organisms.
48hr EC50 (Daphnia magna): 14 ppm
96hr LC50 (rainbow trout): 30 mg/L

Terrestrial toxicity: Toxic to bees.>2000 mg/kg

Boris01

looks like it won't harm your fish , but its highly toxic to bees

on that basis alone I'd be taking it back

RupertofOZ

Boris01 wrote:

looks like it won't harm your fish

Which part of "harmful to aquatic organisms" .... is unclear???

Effects everything from Daphnia to Trout... :shock:

Boris01

aww Rupe beat me to it

the wiki page said it was only mildly toxic to fish ( plus theres not much of it in there ) but it looks like it'll probably affect them aswell

indi

Nuts!

back I go...

Cheers for the replies guys

Indi

Boris01

"dissolves rapidly in the environment" + "moderate toxicity to fish" plus Im assuming it would be used as a foliar spray , with the small percentage of spinosad in it (1%) , I'd be surprised if the fish carked it straight away

I was reading the wiki page not the msds though

high toxicity to bees should set of alarm bells for any gardener regardless of what it'd do to the fish

Boris01

squashing caterpillars one at a time is the most fun part of AP , after gravel washing , isnt it ?

RupertofOZ

Yeah, I was surprised at the "toxic to bees" stuff.... not often you see an implicit warning in regard to bees... :shock:

embi

Probably because we have a shortage of bees these days.

Web4Deb

you could ask him if he has any "BT" or Bacillus Thuringiensis. Dipel is just the brand name for it. I went to the farmer's co-op here once and asked them for Dipel and the guy said "Never heard of it, but you may want to try BT"

RupertofOZ

Good point...

timmy

success has a low level of toxicity to bees after it dries (google it and take a look at the study on bumble bees if you don't believe me). once it dries it moves into the leaves and is toxic to sucking/chewing insects. it is also displays low toxicity on predatory insects like lady bugs.
i've been trialling it by turning off the AP bed i want to treat, spraying conservatively, waiting 2 days then turning the ap bed back on.
no problems so far.

I have heliothis moth which is unaffected by dipel or any other organic treatment i've tried to date. in my dirt garden spinosad has proven very affective. I spray with it in the early morning which is the time i find bee's aren't active in my garden. personal observation is that on a warm day it's dry in 15 minutes.

Matthew

RupertofOZ wrote:

Don't use it...take it back immediately...
not good for fish, plants or bees... :shock:

From the MSDS... http://www.greenharvest.com.au/pestcont ... uccess.pdf

Quote:

Ecotoxicity

Avoid contaminating waterways and fishponds. Do not spray over bees or plants in
flower. Do not allow spray to drift onto aquatic environments, other crops or desirable
plants or outside the target area. For Spinosad (1):

Persistence/degradability andmobility
The material has low potential for bioaccumulation.

Aquatic toxicity: Harmful to aquatic organisms.
48hr EC50 (Daphnia magna): 14 ppm
96hr LC50 (rainbow trout): 30 mg/L

Terrestrial toxicity: Toxic to bees.>2000 mg/kg

Badger1972 wrote:

Does anyone know if the 'Success' catterpilla killer is OK to use? Is a natural bacteria that gets in thier guts and kills them. Use it on my veggie garden.

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RupertofOZ wrote:

Sounds the same... but you can get Yates Dipel from most places...

http://www.yates.com.au/products/pest-c ... ler-dipel/

Marc d W

Hi Guys, After all this debate has anyone used Spinosad on their aquaponics plants? The info I found on it said that
Can be used near aquatic environments. Because of
the properties of spinosad, special mitigation measures
are not required.

Seems like it could be OK

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