Brand new and need advice

trachr

So Im a long time fish breeder and stumbled on to aquaponics not too long ago and have a few questions.

1.) Can you use any fish for this? Im a cichlid breeder so I have plenty cichlids... they require high PH so not sure if that is an issue... if not I can always try breeding koi or somthing along those lines... they are typically easier then what Im breeding now so from that stand point I dont think breeding the fish would be an issue.

2.) To just get my feet wet and see how everything works is it possible to use a 10g tank to give it a try? if I like it I can quickly expand into like 15 more aquariums bigger then the 10 but like I said figured I should get to know how everything works first.

3.) I see some systems that seem to pump the water into a tray where the plans are grown and some systems that the plants look to be floating in the water? Do the floating systems still need to pump the water up onto the foam sheet that is floating... again Im sorry if I mixed up how it really works... I see a whole bunch of examples of completed projects or videos of projects that show 2 steps but its hard to find a full example of what I would want to do with my 10g tank so if you have any good, CHEAP, examples of how to do this please let me know.

Im sorry for the newbness of my questions but in all honesty I figure if Im already breeding fish, have the aquariums, and have the patience to learn this then I may as well grow some of my own lettuce or strawberries and save some money there.... please note I wont be eating my fish, I sell my fish to aquarium enthusiasts... so thats why I asked if I could do it in my cichlid tanks since thats the majority of my aquariums.

I love watching things grow, and love breeding fish... so I am hoping I have at least half of what is needed down.... just want to learn the rest now, and if it is something that I decide is profitable I may expand my buisness into selling crops as well to local farmers markets etc.

Lets see other pertinent info ... Im from Iowa so outdoor is out winter tends to get rather cold, so if I do decide to take a full blown leap itll all be indoor/greenhouse.... I have expierince breeding livebearers, cichlids, and catfish... and my breeding buisness while doing fine dosent really pay for much more then the hobby... so if I do take the plunge ill have to start small and grow as I can... thus trying to start in an empty 10g I have already sitting around.

Thanks for the help

Stuart Chignell

Hi Trachr,

Welcome.

1. Broadly speaking yes. How high would you have the pH? If its too high then your plants will still grow but maybe not very well due to a number of nutrients being locked out.
2. Bigger systems tend to be more stable but there is nothing wrong with a small system.
3. In systems where the plants are held in rafts floating on the water they are in a separate tank where the water flowing in has already been filtered. The plants get their water and nutrients from their roots which are in the water dangling through the raft. If the water going into the raft tank is not filtered then the roots catch the solid waste from the fish and suffocate because the waste prevents oxygen getting to the roots.

Read lots, ask questions, experiment and have fun. Not necessarily in that order although its probably a good idea except for the last one which you should always do.

Stuart

trachr

ideal ph is 7.8-8.5 range I can get away with a lil lower however.

Which way works better the floating or the planted tray?

I could use 2 tanks if need be for the floating if that is better... I have a few 10s open

trachr

I am from a small midwest town so I dont have any hydroponics stores to buy clay pellets so is there something else I could use from say home depot?

I don't want to order tons of pellets which I will if I enjoy this... idea here is to start small and give it a try.... And Ill probably just use a Tupperware container or something to use as a bed above the 10g.

Once I establish if salt, PH, and hardness is an issue Ill decide what fish to use, personally I think for what I want to do tanganyika fish may be ideal if the ph/hardness isint an issue. For the most part they are good parents so I wont have to worry about fry and then I can just sell them for a nice profit as they overcrowd tanks.

Also... I can find plenty on lettuce carrots and some other plants but has anyone grown strawberries? I love em I wont lie lol so I think that would be a fun crop to try first.

And last question... how many plants do you think could be supported by a 10g with a few fish in it?

Thanks.

Stuart Chignell

My home system ran consistently at around 8 to 8.25 because of the gravel I used. The green leafy plants did well as did the rhubarb, chives and the like. Tomatoes not so well but I'm pretty sure that was because it didn't get warm enough for long enough.

Below 8 would be better but being essentially an AQ (aquaculture) person you are going to be coming from a very different mindset. Your pH will tend to drift down and many people counteract this by buffering the pH with shell grit or limestone. I never had to bother with this because of the gravel I used so someone else would be better answering question on how to do it.

As to which growing method is better that is a long discussion but what is becoming popular is both. Using GBs to filter the water and for growing larger plants with extensive root systems while smaller plants are grown in rafts. Many people don't use raft tanks but if you are going to use rafts tanks you must filter the water somehow (which you are probably doing already).

trachr

Ya I have plenty of filtering abilities... I range from sponge filters to Hang on back filters to canister filters... from the way I understand if I use a container to plant in and run the water from there back into the tank I wont need filtration as the plants do it for me.

And yes I am coming from a AQ mindset... I always think of fish first as I have never had to worry about plants as much.... but I still do know all the tricks for lowering and raising PH as well as PH Buffers as PH plays a big role in getting fish to breed.

Honestly I think I would like to try both, raft and GB....

In all honesty Im looking at starting this for multiple reasons (assuming it works for me)
-Growing my own food
-Filtering my aquariums since right now all my filters use power so itll be a power saver
-Possible addition to my income, as it seems to be an untapped market.

So as far as I can see there is no real downside to this

For the media you use to plant in... I see clay pellets are ideal but will any gravel work?

Stuart Chignell

Actually the plants do not do the filtration in a working system. In a raft system the roots of the plants will filter out any solid waste from the water but in doing so they will suffocate. It is the filter media (gravel, hydroton) filter the water trap the waste and hold it while it breaks down. As it breaks down nutrients are released into solution in the water and then the plants take the nutrients from the water.

On this forum the general approach is to have a much more hands off attitude rather than running around checking pH or using additives to raise or lower pH. Many people don't even bother checking their pH or anything else for that matter. In your case it may be important because of the particular requirements of the fish that you are breeding. On the other hand AQ sources of information recommend relatively high pH (8-8.5) for a number of species that we use in AP and they don't seem to mind much lower pH (6-7) in fact they thrive. When there is a problem with fish it is generally to do with something else about the system.

Hybrid

I used to keep and breed cichlids. There are many Cichlids that will tolerate lower pH.
I've also had cichlids do pretty well in lower pH than recommended. Well, Central American cichlids at least.

And for most South American cichlids lower pH is recommended.

IDK about africans because I kinda hate them lol

trachr

interesting, ya I guess I may just throw a few in and see how they do... I can always adapt later if I need to, and as for filtering its basically just like a live filter media that you get with sponge filters and such... interesting.... and thats good cause that is one of the best filtering systems you can have imo.

hehe ya africans are a love hate thing, I just really like tanganikan cause of their parental care... I have yet to see any fish match it... shell breeders for instance will actually attack my hand if they think im too close to their babies... its really kinda cool.

couple more questions....
1.) lava rock... can you use that to plant in?
2.) strawberries... woudl you consider those to be best in the floating or in the container?.. also gonna try cucumbers I think and maybe lettuce (if i have room)
3.) clippings sorry for my newbness here lol... how do you buy 1 or 2 plants and get many more.
4.) fish food... some fish can eat algae and plants... has anyone figured out how to set up a self sustaining food cycle? you grow food for both yourself as well as fish. Just curious if its possible
5.) How big of a tuppleware container should I get for a 10g tank...thats where I plan on planting most the plants.

Thanks again.

Stuart Chignell

1. Yes but I'd check what it does to the pH. Not that it should matter but if it shifts the pH it would be good to know about it before hand.
2. most people stick them in GB or towers. Check out this thread

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=663

3. If you are talking about straw berries you just plant the runners.

4. No, but there are lots of people working on it. Lots of people supplement the food they feed the fish with worms or black soldier fly larvae but generally their fish are large relative to aquarium fish.

5. It depends on your stocking density but at 20kg/m3 (fish kg/m3 water) I would have 20g of gravel media if using GBs to filter.

trachr

you know heres a thought on media.... would regular gravel from aquariums work? I have a load of that layin around, would be nice if I could make use of some of it

bunson

trachr wrote:

would regular gravel from aquariums work?

Could you put plants in it and have them grow? Yes.
Would the small gravel size and small spaces between gravel restrict water flow? Yes.
Would any solids deposited in the GB quickly clog the small spaces between the gravel? Yes.
Would the water have to be pre-filtered? Yes.
Are there better alternatives to aquarium gravel? Yes.

But would it work? With limitations, yes.

What fish species are you intending to grow? And, how much "dirt" do those species produce?

You could add a small GB after any primary GB(s) which will do most of the filtration work before passing through the fine aquarium gravel, thereby reducing the necessity to keep cleaning the media.

If you have some "small volume" capacity which you regularly replant with fast growing plants, this is the better spot to use the gravel so you can remove any clogging solids each time you replant that volume.

Because of the small size and small gaps, if you pre-filter solids from your water before they go to the GB, your gravel can be used in that filter which you'll have to periodically clean (much like you have to in any aquarium). In an earlier system, I used a length of 90mm pipe filled in layers with different sized material and it made excellent work of cleaning solids out of the water, except that I had to clean the damn thing too often!

Other possible uses:

Fine gravel makes an excellent mulch in the top of (dirt) potted plants, it keeps any weeds at bay whilst still allowing water penetration.
If you make your own cement pavers then the gravel can be pressed into the top side to make an attractive non-skid surface.

That's about all I could think of, just sitting here looking out my window...

Scott

trachr

ok so just buying a bag of pea gravel from home depot probably would be the best option since I cant find clay pellets anywhere around here and till I get a better feel for things I dont want to order them.

bunson

GB media is "generally" 12mm - 20mm diameter (0.5" - 0.75") (there were some posts on this forum about optimum size media but I cannot seem to find them?) Media this size provides sufficient surface area for bacterial colonisation, enough gap between particles to facilitate water flow but not so large that it fails to filter solids. Smaller diameters can be more gentle on the hands which makes planting seedling easier (doesn't really come into effect if you only scatter seeds in your GB, or tough!).

Be careful if your pea gravel is smaller or larger.

trachr

ok thank you... a question in GBs ... I get the bell siphon drain... least how it works and how to make it, but should an emergency overflow be put in also just in case something goes wrong in the siphon? as in pump fills faster then siphon drains or siphon clogs and you don't notice till the next day etc...

basically I decided to go crazy and will probably use a 20g that I have layin around then get a 27g tote and put it above the tank... or is that bad proportions?.. I could go with a 10g tank or a 15 I have all of em empty... heck I even have a few 5gal tanks lol

Speaking of totes... if I go to the home depot or such and just buy a cheap tote... they are safe to use right? or do I need to worry about chemicals or whatnot that may come off the totes.

Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics