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PostPosted: Mar 29th, '14, 20:32 
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And you HAVE to remember!!!!
This is an international community with people from all walks of life. I have no problem saying "hey bitch" to my brother or friends... I however don't say that when my mom picks up the phone...
Probably the same with tossed or whatever. It's said jokingly... Not like " hey you tosser! Ewwww look at that guy"

My dad hates curse words but my generation uses these words in normal conversation. I would imagine the people taking insult the most are older forum members...young people just talk like this now a days.

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PostPosted: Mar 29th, '14, 20:51 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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I was raised to value to certain ideals, to behave in certain ways, to aspire to certain standards.

I was taught that being polite to people was a virtue.
I was taught that defending others was to be applauded.
I was taught that to see a wrong committed and not do anything to correct it was tantamount to sanctioning it.
I am astounded at what some of you are saying. You seem to be holding up some view of the past and its greater virtue. Sure some things have gone astray and have gone too far but I was taught that you are meant to stand up for what is right and especially when you see injustice.

The incidents that sparked this discussion are small beer but if we are willing to see people put down and insulted without objection what other standards will we let slip.

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PostPosted: Mar 29th, '14, 21:53 
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Ryan wrote:
This is pretty silly. Who hasn't been bullied in life?

They are calling the current generation the " Waaaaa generation". Everything is expected to be given to them, they expect to be given well paid jobs and to make six figures right out of school. It's what they've been sold they're entire life...

When enough of the world wusses up, I will start my campaign of global domination. :)



I don't even know what threads are being discussed here, but for me it's about posting what you know and if someone wants to disagree with that....let them. Who cares? It's just costing them time and money... Do you think I'm out there pissing and moaning about a forum post while I'm working my farm? Nope! I'm making money and enjoying life... Doing what I love (which was the end goal).

A forum is kind of like a phone book. There is a bunch of none sense BS BUT... There are still helpful discussions happening regularly. Flip past the BS, get the goods.

Well said! :thumbright:

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PostPosted: Mar 29th, '14, 21:58 
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Gabe wrote:
Sleepe wrote:
Do we think it is acceptable behaviour to call someone a knob or tosser?
Do we think it is acceptable to call someone a liar or thief?


The first two yes, the last two no (unless its true and its fairly simple to see the difference). :)



I am not sure if I want to belong to a forum where i am called a knob or a tosser. Perhaps i am one of those sissy's that can't stand up to the harsh realities of live?

Unlike a work environment where there is often little protection for individuals that are bullied - in a forum people can easily escape being called tossers by exercising their democratic right to belong to another forum.

The decision that moderators of any forum have to take is what culture they want to create on the forum - and as a consequence who they attract to the forum.

The question that Stuart raised in his first post was "may be we need a public policy that warms people against bullying and a policy that lays out consequences". Rather than a bullying policy - perhaps we need Forum Rules to describe what is acceptable behavior on the forum.


You have got to joking.

You are not working here and I assume you are here to learn or help.

Let's take the case in point, and the person who started all this shit.

Statistical probability of that person.

Are you and ever have you been a *sigh*? (Tosser) I would rate that at 99.5% true
Are you and ever have you been a Dickhead?(Knob) I would rate that at more than 80%
Are you and ever have you been a liar? (That covers a multitude of small and dubious twistings of the truth) This is really hard to rate perhaps 20%.
Are you and ever have you been a thief? Probably less than 2% but that is speculation.

Do you really get offended when someone calls you a *sigh* or a dickhead? You are or have been (extremely likely) and so is the person who called you that.

As I said before if you feel someone is being given a hard time, you can put in you'r 2cents worth and support them.

This Thread did not help anything or anyone, let it die. :)


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PostPosted: Mar 29th, '14, 22:02 
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Stuart, I'm sorry man, but I think you're getting a little bit carried away now. I've heard you, as do others. Time to get on with other things now, like AP and related subjects?

Why don't you post some pics of your system as it runs at the moment? Or some other stuff you're presently doing in AP?

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PostPosted: Mar 30th, '14, 04:48 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Just think stuart you probley could have solved all of this with mathematics
:laughing3:

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PostPosted: Mar 30th, '14, 05:24 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Food&Fish wrote:
Just think stuart you probley could have solved all of this with mathematics
:laughing3:


Not funny FnF.

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PostPosted: Mar 30th, '14, 05:47 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Gabe wrote:
am not sure if I want to belong to a forum where i am called a knob or a tosser. Perhaps i am one of those sissy's that can't stand up to the harsh realities of live?


This is exactly the response that concerns me. People who walk away because they have "better" places to be.

Leaving banter aside many people don't like being insulted and they don't like seeing others insulted. Such people have a threshold and once that threshold is reached they will walk and not come back. The question for us as a community is do we care?

Quote:
The decision that moderators of any forum have to take is what culture they want to create on the forum - and as a consequence who they attract to the forum.


This is the heart of the matter. Repeatedly I've said that the Mods as a group do a good job but that doesn't mean they cant do better but that doesn't mean they need to do better either.

Also I don't think this is the job of just the Mods. As a member of a community (forum, club, Nation State) I believe that rather than rights you have responsibilities. I started this thread because I thought I was acting responsibly to help curb some of the behaviours that I find witnessing uncomfortable.

sleepe wrote:
As I said before if you feel someone is being given a hard time, you can put in you'r 2cents worth and support them.

This Thread did not help anything or anyone, let it die. :)


I will.

I would agree that no ones attitudes have been changed by this discussion so far but that does not mean that they cant be. I think this thread has helped people. At the very least it has made a number of peoples attitudes on the subject crystal clear. That will be useful in helping at least me frame my responses in the future.

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PostPosted: Mar 30th, '14, 06:22 
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I think this sums up my attitude :D

Skip to about 3:30 for the bit I'm talking about.



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PostPosted: Mar 30th, '14, 06:47 
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BEAUTIFUL! I love how it takes a comic to clearly spell out the problems with modern society. And well done sir! Two thumbs up from me.. :)


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PostPosted: Mar 30th, '14, 07:12 
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Stuart Chignell wrote:
Yavimaya wrote:
however i strongly disagree with your "other people cant look after themselves" line, are you some sort of god that is better than normal people?


Fact some people just can't. Others can but instead of confronting the situation and dealing with it they choose to leave. If I have chosen not to join others or to leave them because of the culture that seemed to be accetable there. I decided that I didn't want to spend any time with those groups of people because of a range of behaviours that they tolerated. People can and will make similar assesments of our community here at BYAP. Some will decide to stay others will not. What will influence which people stay and which people go will be dependent on what behaviours that they see us engaged in. What things we tolerate and what things we condemn.

There are two issues that are woven in this discourse and that I raised in the first post. The first is what we as a community will and will not tolerate. The second is what we will do when a member steps out of what we will tolerate into what we will not. The second is irrelevant without a clearer understanding of the first. Since what we will tolerate as a community is not clear cut maybe we should limit of discussion, at least for the being, to what we will or will not tolerate.

To use a sporting analogy when a person starts insulting someone they stop playing the ball and start attacking their opponent.

Do we think it is acceptable behaviour to call someone a knob or tosser?
Do we think it is acceptable to call someone a liar or thief?

The former are labels that are applied to people based on our opinions of them. Depending on context they can be more or less serious insults.

The latter can be less subjective and more objective if they are based on evidence. For example it is legally acceptable to describe someone as a thief if you have evidence that they are indeed a thief.

Is it acceptable to have forum members trading insults backwards and forwards? What should we do if one member repetitively insults another or others?

Personally when I see such behaviour I am going to continue to say it is not cool.



And that is what you need to do, that is what we all need to do.
Most forum (im sure including this one), if you read the rules wont allow you to call others names, etc. But it goes on anyway.
There has to be a moving line with these sorts of things, not a line drawn in the sand or else there will be no one left to post on the forums - and the younger the members, the quicker they would all be banned.

Basically all of the questions you have asked are already covered by what joel and the team does now, I think what you are really asking for is for joel to make up a list for you that outlines his responces to different situations to put your own mind at ease, i dont really think this discussion or your ideas will lead to less conflict on the forums.

Sorry, but i have to be honest.


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PostPosted: Mar 30th, '14, 08:38 
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Columnmn- the absolute perfect response. IMO. Mr. Hughes..aka, my new favorite stand up, hits it right on the head. "You're offended? I don't care." You want to live in a democracy, and not be offended...it can't happen. Pretty sure you can't offend people in Russia or China, or N. Korea.lol


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