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PostPosted: Nov 6th, '18, 03:10 
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Hello,

Should fish waste be removed in the swirl filter regular ? if yes, then why ?


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PostPosted: Nov 6th, '18, 03:33 
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Because as it breaks down it releases more ammonia and uses more oxygen deteriorating the water quality. If it were left to build up a think enough layer it would probably become anaerobic and release toxic gases etc.


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PostPosted: Nov 6th, '18, 06:07 
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Depends on your system. The grow beds act as filters and if you have enough of these you might not need any additional solids removal because the solids will mineralize in the grow beds. They won't be completely eliminated but it will be years before you need to clean the grow beds if your fish load is light in relation to the grow bed filtration volume.

If you don't have enough grow beds then a radial flow filter (RFF) or Swirl Filter helps remove some of those solids that would otherwise clog the beds and promote anaerobic conditions (a bit of anaerobic is OK but you don't want the plant roots smothered or a lot of toxic gasses that could kill the fish). If you still want to use the nutrients from the solids you collect in the RFF or Swirl Filter then you can put them in a mineralizer and aerate them to cause them to further break down - then reintroduce the liquids portion into the system. An easier way to deal with them if they are not needed in the AP system is just to use them in your soil garden, wicking beds or compost pile.


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PostPosted: Nov 6th, '18, 06:54 
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as Scotty says...

In a media bed based system the biggest difference between an established and new-young system is the solids provide a constant source of nutrient. Thus you tend to get better plant growth. Filters become more significant if you have a high fish load and excess accumulation of solids. In many media bed systems they are not required at all.

In a DWC or water-basket based setup you need the filtering to keep the roots free of crud and junk.
You also need some appropriate level of bio-surface to facilitate nitrogen conversion.

In a small system you can also use a drum of media etc, if setup effectively and you have enough dissolved oxygen then this provides both a solids filter and bio-filter (wet media for nitrogen conversion). If set up with a tap at bottom it can be flushed easily.

"just to use them in your soil garden, wicking beds or compost pile"
+1 citrus trees love it, as do vegies etc.

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PostPosted: Nov 6th, '18, 13:39 
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Every now and then I sweep the bottom of the trout tank with a net and remove some of the solids which are on the bottom. Otherwise no filter as the grow beds are the filter.


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PostPosted: Nov 6th, '18, 18:32 
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But including a swirl filter in to your system presumably means you are intending to remove some solids. To leave settled solids on the bottom of a swirl filter seems pointless and not a good idea in the long run.

If you don't want to be removing solids from filters then grow-beds with media is a better type of system to go for.

Scotty and Darren, when you remove a plat with a monster root mass from a grow-bed, how important is it to remove all the roots you can? And what happens to the ones that inevitably get left behind? Are they broken down with the help of worms to eventually become part of the sludge or do you find that they can build up over time? I have a cabbage in a small grow-bed, and i'm concerned that the root mass takes up so much of the grow-bed volume, and may impede water flow, and that when it comes to removing it, leftover roots (they are fine and extensive) will impede flow, limit bio-filtration and oxygenation and increase the oxygen demand for their own breakdown etc


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PostPosted: Nov 6th, '18, 19:21 
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Scotty and Darren, when you remove a plant with a monster root mass from a grow-bed, how important is it to remove all the roots you can? And what happens to the ones that inevitably get left behind? Are they broken down with the help of worms to eventually become part of the sludge or do you find that they can build up over time? I have a cabbage in a small grow-bed, and i'm concerned that the root mass takes up so much of the grow-bed volume, and may impede water flow, and that when it comes to removing it, leftover roots (they are fine and extensive) will impede flow, limit bio-filtration and oxygenation and increase the oxygen demand for their own breakdown etc

yep happens quite regularly, just had a monster perpetual spinach that had gone nuts, also celery in past.
One reason I prefer dutch buckets for tomatoes and keep beds for leafy greens.

Usually I try and pull/scoop the whole plant root ball out - i tend to cut the leaf etc off first. Then go straight into a bucket and shake off the media there. I use clay balls so find that the root balls doesn't need much tugging and if I run my hands through the clay media after removing then you can sort of sieve and scoop out most of whats left - that would be harder to do with a rock media.

What is left breaks down with the aid of worms - I haven't had too much issue (lots of worms living happily).
But I do tend to re-do my beds every couple of years, so tend to turn the media over.
As I have a drain media guard I can remove the standpipe and hose out and collect the crud in a bucket and put it on the garden.

You will also find that the outer roots that do get left tends to be smaller and break down easier.

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PostPosted: Nov 7th, '18, 03:03 
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First off it's easier if you don't wait till the plant is in such bad shape the root system is falling apart.

Some roots are really slow to breakdown so I try to get as many roots as possible. When I remove the plant, I do like Darren or I just hold the plant over the grow bed and run my fingers through the roots to get the media back in the grow bed. If the root system is falling apart, it's less hassle to work with a bucket. Expanded clay makes this really easy compared to rock or scoria.

With plants that aren't diseased or infested, I also sometimes pull the plant out and lay it on top of the media for a day before cleaning off the roots - I think it makes it a bit easier to clean and probably lets some of the worms migrate back into the bed on their own.


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PostPosted: Nov 7th, '18, 23:00 
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Uh Oh, here we go again ...... in the iAVs style of AP there is no need for outside filtration. The solids are filtered/deposited on the surface of the sandbed(s) where they decompose and feed the plants. The sandbeds ARE the filtration for the entire system. AP done in the KISS method.


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PostPosted: Nov 8th, '18, 01:21 
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would be great to see some pics of the iAVs... any members on here posted pics?


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PostPosted: Nov 8th, '18, 23:44 
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danny wrote:
would be great to see some pics of the iAVs... any members on here posted pics?


My setup as of this morning. A few weeks after installing a new 800 gal. fishtank/pond, and getting fall planting underway. Not a whole lot to look at yet, but here it is. Going on 3 years running, the major problem I've had was dealing with Root knot Nematodes that kept getting washed into my inground FT. Installed new FT and sump. Looking forward to much better production without the RKN problem.


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PostPosted: Nov 11th, '18, 05:17 
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My ten pence worth on solids removal, if you have a device the quickly removes waste from the water column so as to improve overall water conditions,you shouldn’t leave them in the bottom of the tank as they are still technically in the water column. Only now we are going to encourage anoxic conditions which could actually degrade the conditions we were trying to improve by adding the filter.
I have done regular and comprehensive water testing for the last year and one thing for sure the waste collected in the swirl or rfs needs to added to a MT and mineralised,with the nutrient rich water added back to the system on a regular basis. Most of the nutrients from AP are just enough but we supply then constantly, by removing the solids and using them else where could lead to a drop of in growth within the system, maybe not deficiency visible but not as strong a growth that could be available.
My system runs a RFS which gets cleaned daily, the solids go straight into a Mineralization tank where there aerated, daily this tank has the air switched off and allowed to settle flor at least 15 minutes, after which the clear liquid at the top of the tank is allowed to flow slowly through the MBBR and back into the system to be utilised by the plants. This 450l tank has been running a year now, the system has a feed input of 400g of feed per day and has not been cleaned out,it just gets fed the waste everyday and allowed to do its thing.

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