Venting corner

boss

LowCarbTNPer wrote:

Freedom from government overreach. Not everyone believes in the "social contract" or whatever you want to call it and you shouldn't force a U.S. citizen to pay for other people's care/services. The same people probably also would say they don't want to pay for other people's unemployment, etc. and that these kinds of things should come from voluntary donations through private charities/church/etc.

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MartinC wrote:

I understand that some people don't want to be involved in the social contract. But it surprises me that people think that by willfully not paying for other people's services somehow doesn't affect them. But let's be honest the intention is not to make someone pay for the services others receive. The intention is actually for nearly everyone to pay for healthcare cover and then that also helps people that can't afford it, where they get to benefit from a group effort.

It's kinda funny that someone will be happy to ensure that minimum wage stays rock bottom, accept their services everywhere but then blame those people for not being able to afford basic (but overpriced) medical services as if it is somehow their fault or because they are lazy or something.

The bottom line is that having millions of people not covered by healthcare has a very negative impact in our society.
It absolutely does, it's just not really measurable. But if you have people in your society with long term untreated illnesses, people dying in circumstances where they could have been helped or saved and people that are living subpar quality of life because they can't get the treatment they need it totally has an impact on every individual and society as a whole. It causes a huge amount of difficulty and negative issues but of course if you can't put it on a ledger in a debit/credit column for many people it then simply does not exist.

Sorry I wrote way more than I was planning on writing!

Thank you so much MartinC. I believe you nailed it. We are seeing more desperation of peoples all over the world as the population explodes to a point where resources can't keep up with mouths to feed, which is exasperated by oligarchs removing more than their share and not returning enough to the workers to support the system they setup.
The phrase "Freedom from government overreach," is no doubt in my mind written by the Koch Brother's many right wing think-tanks to protect their own pocket books. The best place for a government to reach is social security for it's people.

The USA also has a system of legalized bribery which has put a lot of laws into effect which are specifically written by the corporations to benefit themselves. Senator Elizabeth Warren has written a fantastic anti-corruption bill which will probably never get passed because it will adversely affect 99% of our politicians. As the saying goes it's the thought that counts.
https://www.congress.gov/115/bills/s3357/BILLS-115s3357is.pdf

LowCarbTNPer

Looks like someone deleted my post so it loses all context, thanks for that smh...

But back to it I would say the anti-universal healthcare/anti-social contract people don't care about society as a whole but about themselves and their own pocketbook. As long as they can afford their own healthcare that's all that matters to them, otherwise they wouldn't be anti-social contract people

boss

Hi LowCarbTNPer
I can go get the rest from my page, I didn't think about context, sorry. Oh crap I think you are right, it seems to be gone, now I'm double sorry. Thanks for the clarification on the "over reach" bit of it. I agree with you. I was looking at it also from a perspective of how people lately are getting charged up over immigration. Coming up with all sorts of reasons to blame immigrants and jobs losses overseas for our problems, when it seems to me the problem is the corporations would rather pay slave wages than help people with a living wage and they spend their money convincing Americans the problem is our fault or immigrants or Blacks or anyone but their policy of making money for their shareholders. Speaking of shareholders, I'm reading now that the corporations are using the tax break money to buy back their stock from shareholders instead of reinvesting them money into the economy. I believe it is their intention to bankrupt the country so they can dissolve social security.

Kinda dark, but I don't think it'll take too long to find out if it is true.
Brian

LowCarbTNPer

Yeah, it's crazy levels of greed and just complete disregard for anyone but themselves.

gnoib

I throw the oldest health insurance and care system of the world into the discussion.

Please take a note of the dates and who Bismarck was.

http://healthmatters4.blogspot.com/2011 ... model.html

A little side note the German model is financially extremely sound, private and non private insurances have surpluses in the billions of Euro.
A 100% coverage, no deductible, no co payment private insurance is less than 400 a month, in Europe.

LowCarbTNPer

That's cool. I do blame a lot of the price of healthcare on private insurance not being regulated. Massive addition of admin. overhead, costs increasing all the time both because of the overhead and also greed of operators knowing they can charge more to the insurance company. The cost of a Doctor's education is also way too high making their salaries go up more so they both pay off their student loans and get that BMW.

Even if we did adopt Germany's system our healthcare would cost more for probably the 1st 10-20 years just due to the health of the average American and level of access a lot of people have now, but eventually should normalize around the same level as European countries.

earthbound

LowCarbTNPer wrote:

Looks like someone deleted my post so it loses all context, thanks for that smh...

)

Unlikely, posts only get deleted if spam or people get highly abusive. Post deletion is VERY rare.. glitches in the forum or in posting do happen occasionally.

LowCarbTNPer

earthbound wrote:

LowCarbTNPer wrote:

Looks like someone deleted my post so it loses all context, thanks for that smh...

)

Unlikely, posts only get deleted if spam or people get highly abusive. Post deletion is VERY rare.. glitches in the forum or in posting do happen occasionally.

No worries, this was in another thread originally and when it got moved they trimmed the post.

BullwinkleII

Ok.. this doesn't really belong on an aquaponics forum which is no doubt why this little section was set up.

When some white people (I'm a white, middle class, hetero, middle aged male) came to where I live a few hundred years ago, we drew some imaginary lines in the way that white people tend to do.

We did it in India, we did it in Africa, we did it all all the Americas, we did it in Canada, Papua New Guinea, and pretty much everywhere else we could.

It doesn't work so well.

Generally speaking drawing arbitrary lines through bits of occupied land causes a lot of trouble.

Slightly interestingly have a look at the right hand side of the South Australian border on google earth. A team started mapping from the south, and another from the north.... they messed up by about 400 meters. They didn't quite meet where they should have. Ha! 400 year old science.... makes me want to deny my profound evangelical atheism.

Almost.

Now, I tend toward the camp of.... let your WWII Grandfather hate the Japanese for bit, but the next generation should kind of get over it.

But that's just generally speaking.

Sometimes we should get over it sooner.

If only for the menu options.

Anyway...

I have a very close friend that we kind of adopted when she was 14 years old. Not really adopted, just kind of took her under our wing. She's now 30 or something, but there was this time in her teens when her father complained to me that while filling out her social security form to get income support because she was between jobs, if he ticked the box that said she ...(I cant remember the words) "defined" herself as indigenous, would have extra health and other support stuff at her disposal.

He thought that was disgusting.

He's not overtly racist or anything, he just thought that just by ticking the box (remember there is no such thing as race as determined by science... race is an abstract concept defined by things like the PROBABILITY of lactose intolerance, skin colour etc) he could/should get access to extra benefits for his daughter.

Now this next bit might be worth reading twice, because it's not obvious to the casual reader.

I told him that she could tick the box and get extra benefits, but her life expectancy would be reduced by around 10 years.

That's probably worth reading again because that fact has special magic properties that cant be explained unless you employ reality.

And obviously I'm having a bit of a whinge about the fact that Australia Day public holiday is actually the celebration of Invasion Day to a stack of humans, and while we might well have an Australia Day holiday, it probably shouldn't be on the day that a few thousand Britts fu&*#$ over a nation of humans going about their business for 40,000 - 60,000 years or so.

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from wikipedia...

terra nullius
/ˌtɛrə ˈnʌlɪəs/
noun
land that is legally deemed to be unoccupied or uninhabited. In Australia the question of whether British colonizers had regarded the continent as terra nullius at the time of the original settlement, and, if so, whether this was a proper designation, was at the centre of several important legal cases in the late 20th and early 21st centuries.
---------------------

Here's a map of some nations most people dont know about (Yep, I stole the map)...

Attachment:

Map-of-Aboriginal-Australia-demonstrating-the-multitude-of-Aboriginal-and-Torres-Strait.jpg [ 169.4 KiB | Viewed 14655 times ]

BullwinkleII

That post took me nearly two hours to write.

skeggley

Yep, typical Bullwinkle, staying up late just to confuse us.

I’m a 5th generation Aussie, and don’t consider this day to be invasion day, all some of my ancestors wanted to do was eat or feed their family, it wasn’t their choice to come here in irons.
Sure indigenous youth suicide is higher than non indigenous but what do you do? Take the youth away from their community and ‘look after them’?
I reckon that if a lot of them got off their self righteous asses and integrated with the community, positively, they could demand the respect they want.
When I see a couple fill their pram with luxury items like ice cream and chips then blatantly stroll through the checkout at the local Woolies I kinda lose respect.
When I see one working hard at the scrap yard with a smile on his face I see hope.
I don’t hear the NZ traditional owners complaining......

BullwinkleII

skeggley wrote:

Yep, typical Bullwinkle, staying up late just to confuse us.

I’m a 5th generation Aussie, and don’t consider this day to be invasion day, all some of my ancestors wanted to do was eat or feed their family, it wasn’t their choice to come here in irons.
Sure indigenous youth suicide is higher than non indigenous but what do you do? Take the youth away from their community and ‘look after them’?
I reckon that if a lot of them got off their self righteous asses and integrated with the community, positively, they could demand the respect they want.
When I see a couple fill their pram with luxury items like ice cream and chips then blatantly stroll through the checkout at the local Woolies I kinda lose respect.
When I see one working hard at the scrap yard with a smile on his face I see hope.
I don’t hear the NZ traditional owners complaining......

That person you see in the supermarket buying ice cream has a PHD in Astrophysics, holds three patents and pays over 40 million dollars a year in tax. I'd buy ice cream as well.

The Maori people have a treaty, indigenous Australians were logged as stock when you sold a farm.

When white people off themselves, or smoke, or have diabetes, we throw money at it to solve it.

Ask me how much a lung transplant costs for a white, 40 pack years smoker who's only been living here for 5 generations.

I'm off for a "blatant" stroll through a park, via a road, past a school, under some power lines and internet infrastructure that my black half brother's* tax paid for before I start getting all honest and tell you want I really think.

*in the air force now (his grandfather was a fuzzy wuzzy angel who saved hundreds of diggers for a pat on the back, risking his life daily for years - for you - and he knew less about you than you do about the people in the checkout. He grew up with stone tools, and then was given a shiny machete to point out snipers in trees because he could tell when the leaves were moving funny)

Anyway... I just realised some efforts are simply pointless.

Gone for a walk.

Asitis

What better place to raise this!

I grew up with standard white, sutblily racist parents, then spent much of my adult life realising how scared and blind there opinions were. Hunting with some wonderful aboriginal children for mud crabs at coburg peninsula taugh me that I would no doubt die in 'the wild' and they would thrive.

Btw In NZ they sing Maori songs and chants at school, and their traditional culture is deeply fused within their western ways not disregarded, hense there community cohesion.

P.S. my parents are both approaching their deaths and I can happily report they also have abandoned there racism, yay. :cheers:

BullwinkleII

earthbound wrote:

Argh.... More bad information being given out by someone running "courses". I thought twice about putting this here, but he bad mouths aquaponic forums as being sources of bad information so hey why not.

http://melbourneaquaponics.com.au

Was watching a video of his about fish stocking and thought everything was going fairly well, 1kg of fish to 50L of growbed, great, yes, doesn't matter about the size of the fish tank... :thumbright:

But then at about 7 minutes in he points to his very cut down IBC system and suggests rather than putting in 2 fish to grow them up to 1kg each, put in 50 fingerling, then as they grow bigger you can eat them or sell them... :dontknow:

Also those with an aversion to round pipes being called NFT, should not watch the NFT video....

Snails in aquaponics, great to add vegetarian snails to your system, to keep the algae down, then if they start to breed too much and get out of control, add a carnivorous snail to eat the other snails.. :think:

Perhaps I need to do his online course valued at over $1000US for only $197US to understand better..

$1000 value for only $197 how did you resist?

I haven't seen a deal as good as that since I last checked my junk mail folder!

At least you gave him a link-back... I was tempted to change the "." to the word "dot", but I figure it would be out of the question to edit your posts

BullwinkleII

agghhh.... now I want to do it to see what happens

Never put me of the edge of a cliff or hand me a live rocket launcher.

Taking the batteries out of my keyboard and going to sleep

Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Venting corner

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Backyard Aquaponics A place to discuss aquaponics

Venting corner

Who is online

Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics